Kentucky made child care free for child care workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#131

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:00 PM UTC

api wrote: post #128

ceejayoz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing isn't the only aspect, by far. Our family healthcare insurance premium is double our mortgage, and it goes up more than inflation (and wage growth) every year.

Yeah health care is another problem but the cost disease here is not as deeply entrenched in the economy as housing. The whole real estate market and a giant chunk of the financial system runs on the idea that housing must always go up, which necessitates that it must become less affordable over time.

> The whole real estate market and a giant chunk of the financial system runs on the idea that housing must always go up, which necessitates that it must become less affordable over time.

The same is true for healthcare. Pfizer needs to demonstrate ongoing growth to their shareholders; insurance companies are bound by the ACA to a maximum profit margin so can only increase profits by growing costs; half the new commercial real estate in my area is medical buildings going up.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#132

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:09 PM UTC

larkost wrote: post #93

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you've lost the plot when even child care is looked at through the lense of capitalistic markets. Maybe fuck the markets and lets do what is best for the children and the parents. Or is that a radical idea nowadays?

I sympathize with the underlying thought, but I think that it is worth using this as a model of when we should use the tool of socialism and when we should use the tool of capitalism... what should be the balance? In this case the fundamental problem seems to be that not enough people want to work in childcare, for the money that those businesses are currently offering. Part of that problem is for some of the potenti…

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

I've seen some pretty heinous opinions on this site, things such as safety regulations shouldn't exist just let the market decide. The companies insurance premiums will raise and so companies will naturally want to be safer!

As if that's more important than _preventing_ the loss of limbs.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#133

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:09 PM UTC

cpach wrote: post #70

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you've lost the plot when even child care is looked at through the lense of capitalistic markets. Maybe fuck the markets and lets do what is best for the children and the parents. Or is that a radical idea nowadays?

What does that mean in practice though? That both parents should stay at home until the kids are 10?

Well if we can't have that then we the line definitely should be drawn at the other extreme where we just don't give a shit about parents spending time with children.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#134

Post by lliamander » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

api wrote: post #130

lliamander wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing about women entering the workforce making it impossible to have a single earner home is nonsense. The problem is housing. I think you may be right about the overall problem, but I'm not sure I agree that density is the solution. People starting families don't just want a house, what they want is enough space . Mothers want a yard they can send the kids out into when they need a moments peace, closets to s…

Density increase isn’t the only angle. That’s why I also listed telework, transportation, etc. We need a multi pronged approach. Basically any policy that improves housing affordability without too much negative or perverse incentive elsewhere should be favored.

Density also comes with it's own problems - crime, pollution, disease, and a loss in personal freedom necessary to keep those other problems at bay. None of that is ideal for family formation.

And increasing density only works up to a point. Once you can no longer increase density, the prices start climbing back up.

I think rezoning for more mixed use neighborhoods is a good idea, and some high-density living is good (not everyone has kids, or wants to have them) but I am skeptical of increasing density in general.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#135

Post by jscipione » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

Well there goes the idea that Republicans stop caring about babies after they are born.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#136

Post by sethammons » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:23 PM UTC

cpach wrote: post #70

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you've lost the plot when even child care is looked at through the lense of capitalistic markets. Maybe fuck the markets and lets do what is best for the children and the parents. Or is that a radical idea nowadays?

What does that mean in practice though? That both parents should stay at home until the kids are 10?

I'm an admirer of the working parents with child rearing by the grandparents. Didn't work out in our case.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#137

Post by sethammons » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:36 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #63

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

property tax is a burden for anyone who owns property in the US.

The weight of my t-shirt upon my shoulders is also technically a burden. Who cares. Quantitative distinctions matter, binary burden/non-burden thinking is not helpful.

I pay $500/mo in property tax. If I were to watch kids to pay my rent to the government, it would take at least one full time kid. That is residential; I assume commercial tax rate would be higher. And that one kid may represent 10-25% of a caregiver's capacity.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#138

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #69

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you've lost the plot when even child care is looked at through the lense of capitalistic markets. Maybe fuck the markets and lets do what is best for the children and the parents. Or is that a radical idea nowadays?

The best for children and parents would probably be that none of the parents have to work at all until the child is some age when they should go to school. But if we implemented that system, there would be a labor shortage, which would reduce the number of teachers, plumbers, mechanics, accountants, software engineers, etc, so the rest of society would suffer. There is no magic wand we can wave to solve all our probl…

> without any tradeoffs.

why did you interpret my comment as being extreme?

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#139

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #74

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you've lost the plot when even child care is looked at through the lense of capitalistic markets. Maybe fuck the markets and lets do what is best for the children and the parents. Or is that a radical idea nowadays?

Agreed! I’ve noticed there are two kinds of policy advocates. Agenda advocates: no matter the problem, they push their agenda. Anti tax people are in this category. Down economy? “Lower taxes!” They shout. Up exonomy? “Lower taxes to keep the momentum!” Issue advocate: these people are creative and will propose the best solution given the day’s issue. The solutions they propose change over the years because condition…

> The comment you rape replying to is from the former. The world needs more of the latter.

Well that's a hell of a typo :P

I think the worst example of this I've seen on this site is when someone was advocating removing safety requirements from manufacturing plants because the rate hike in insurance would take care of making sure these companies were giving safe work conditions to their employees.

You know the people who advocate for that do so because they never expect anyone they care about to be working a manufacturing job.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#140

Post by samatman » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 7:55 PM UTC

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #49

steven-xu wrote: post #9

Setting aside the philosophical free market questions, additional government subsidy childcare seems fine. There’s a positive externality of readily available childcare: one adult to many children is more efficient than home care, and parents being able to work generates economic production, taxes, etc. But couldn’t we come up with a subsidy with less market distortion? A specific subsidy to pay for childcare for chi…

You know you've lost the plot when even child care is looked at through the lense of capitalistic markets. Maybe fuck the markets and lets do what is best for the children and the parents. Or is that a radical idea nowadays?

Childcare is a market, the same way bread is. Like bread, family might provide it out of their own time and money, but otherwise, you have to pay someone.

Doing what is best for the children and parents is a market intervention, and ignoring how markets work when coming up with market interventions has a pretty bad track record.

Markets don't exist in a vacuum, they can involve the public sector: primary education is mainly provided through public funds and institutions, but it remains a market nonetheless. Throwing out what we know about market dynamics isn't a good way to do what's best for children and parents.