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Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

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Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#91

Post by codingdave »

not-chatgpt wrote: post #29

Worked at a couple FAANG companies and from what I've seen, management is absolutely right that remote work, overall, is inefficient. There was a Blind poll and I believe half the people admitted they were slacking off more frequently while remote. However, being laid off is just a completely different matter. Depending on the company, the motivation for the layoff could significantly differ. Some did it to save cost…

There is no guarantee that slacking off more frequently means less efficiency.

Slacking off but then returning to focused, deep work, without distraction can absolutely be more productive than working consistently in a distracting environment. I've even found that "slacking off" is embraced by companies who have worked remotely. In one prior gig, letting the team know, "Hey, I'm going skiing for a couple hours and will be online this evening" was not at all an unusual message to see. People work when they are going to be productive and "slack" when they wouldn't be productive anyway. Remote work means you can optimize for your personal productive times... and still slack off more. Best of both worlds.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#92

Post by ttymck »

keikobadthebad wrote: post #3

Something you have to understand about being remote - at any time, this was true decades ago - is that you are not there when people talk and you can't correct them or defend yourself. People with commutes and requirements to be under the eyes of management resent those who don't have that problem and can all agree on that. Remote gigs will always be more tenuous than prison-jobs.

If I need to eavesdrop on off-the-cuff conversations in order to justify my job, I won't last long at that employer in any case.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#93

Post by Taikonerd »

MilStdJunkie wrote: post #83

Here's my favorite side effect of this latest scam: MUCH lower salaries for the same level of work. How does it work? Well, BigCorp X says, hey, you can remote! So we just need to pay a salary for the CoL in Jackson MS. That's fair! Also we're moving our offices there. So, theoretically, since anyone can work there, and that's where we moved our headquarters, that's our pay scale. Then, you pull that rug, and now the…

I worry about this, too. "As long as all the IT guys are remote anyway, why are we paying them North American / European salaries? They have tech guys in India and China, don't they?"

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#94

Post by gardenhedge »

bartwr wrote: post #32
gardenhedge wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a union and got a 1.5% raise, benefits have decreased and we're forced into hybrid working. I'm in a country where I can't just be fired without notice so that union doesnt do much for me there either. I'm just pointing out that unions don't mean you get everything you want.

That last sentence is a total strawman. Unions are not there so you get everything you want. They are there to turn individual negotiations and protection into group and collective one. So it's not just a single junior programmer fighting for their rights, but potentially all company SWEs fighting for this junior programmer rights. If Meta faced a complete strike similar to writers' strike, their workers could achiev…

It's not a strawman. Union membership is thrown around here like a solution to all problems.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#95

Post by ryandrake »

nerdjon wrote: post #25
keikobadthebad wrote: post #3

Something you have to understand about being remote - at any time, this was true decades ago - is that you are not there when people talk and you can't correct them or defend yourself. People with commutes and requirements to be under the eyes of management resent those who don't have that problem and can all agree on that. Remote gigs will always be more tenuous than prison-jobs.

There is something to be said about being "known" and visible in the office vs running invisibly in the background. I know my job I feel like is kinda invisible. There are a few key people I talk too on a regular basis but outside of those small handful of people most of the company don't know I exist except for the rare times I show up the office. I will also say that as much as I prefer WFH, there is still somethin…

> There is something to be said about being "known" and visible in the office vs running invisibly in the background.

There shouldn't be, but I agree that in reality there is something to simply being visibly toiling. I learned on HN a month ago, this is called the "Costanza Disposition"[1] based on a Seinfeld episode.

You walk the halls in the office with a very serious, determined look on your face, always with laptop in hand. Always drifting past where the Directors and VPs sat. Always striking up conversations with people in leadership. Always visibly demonstrating vague "bustle" and "activity." A naive manager would observe this behavior and think to himself "Ahh, yes, the glorious buzz of Business™ Being Done! My empire is so active!"

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC8PzhNuh7w

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#96

Post by VirusNewbie »

dartos wrote: post #51
bartwr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they sound horrible? This is a serious, non provocative question. :) I personally loved working for Google. Low workload, great work-life balance, amazing perks, mind blowing salary, potential to do really cool stuff that hundreds of millions will use, doing really cutting edge things that almost noone else can do, ridiculously good internal infrastructure and tooling so I can focus just on my tasks, kind and…

Many people would not like the cognitive dissonance of working for an organization that does many things they disagree with. But from what I hear, it really depends where in google you work. I hear juniors/new grads are worked to the bone

>But from what I hear, it really depends where in google you work. I hear juniors/new grads are worked to the bone

The workload is not too much, but there's a lot of ambiguity and very little hand holding. Even as a newer senior engineer, my work is hard. Not 50+ hours a week hard, but a somewhat stressful 45 hours a week.

But it's fun and interesting so I'm happy, plus the comp is extremely good (not quite Netflix or JS/TGS level, but pretty great).

I'd rather be a little stressed than a lot bored.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#97

Post by ryandrake »

lucideer wrote: post #57

I think the best way to judge this is to look at management. Are they remote or in office? I work for a large corp who's CTO is fully remote. As an engineer, that gives me confidence, & the fact a decent % of other CxOs, VPs, &c. are too just bolsters that. A sibling commenter - @keikobadthebad - described it well: if decision-makers are meeting all in-office folk in person, you'll be naturally excluded from the impo…

This sounds like a great interview question from the interviewee, when it comes to evaluating a remote role: "Are the decision makers that affect my work in-office, remote or a mix?"

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#98

Post by VirusNewbie »

Totally depends on the company. From what I understand, apple is very much against remote work for all but the outstanding superstar level talent.

Amazon is letting top performers stay remote, I don't think this will change.

Meta is probably ahead of the curve in that they're formalizing the process. It sounds like if you're new to the industry and meta you have no chance of remote, but if you prove yourself in office for a bit you're eligible.

My take: remote will soon be a thing that some senior level folks are eligible for, and for standout people. I expect big companies will stop hiring any L3/L4 remote at all. I expect you'll get more scrutiny as a remote employee regardless of level. But I also think if you're a solid performer, your remote options will actually go up over time after companies figure out how to weed out the slackers and whatnot.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#99

Post by gardenhedge »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #65
nsxwolf wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point out the underperformance of unions and the response is always yeah but they got us weekends off 100 years ago. What have you done for me lately?

Working on the 4 day workweek in the US at the moment. Progress takes time, it's impossible until it is done.

That's just doing 5 days of work in 4 days..
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