Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all • Hacker News Board

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#21

Post by croes » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #11

croes wrote: post #4

>That means that while the developers of big-selling games pay royalties, those who use Unreal Engine for film making and other uses pay nothing. Understandable but could introduce a revenue limit too.

They have a revenue limit ($1M) but also currently only apply that to people who use the engine code in the delivered product (which is apprximately gaming uses, but could include some other interactive non-gaming use), not people who use the engine to produce things like movies that are distributed without the engine code.

That's what I mean, a revenue limit for VFX would be good too

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#22

Post by whimsicalism » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #7

> Speaking at Unreal Fest 2023, Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney said Unreal Engine would become “a licensable piece of software like Maya or Photoshop” with a subscription-based pricing model. SAAS is rent-seeking at its worst. It’s predatory, anti-consumer and downright annoying. I hope this backfires on Epic.

sass is the only business model that works well for continuously developed software

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#23

Post by wlesieutre » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:09 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #4

>That means that while the developers of big-selling games pay royalties, those who use Unreal Engine for film making and other uses pay nothing. Understandable but could introduce a revenue limit too.

Article does say "There will be minimum revenue thresholds for commercial projecrs, and student/educator use will remain free"

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#24

Post by nonethewiser » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:09 PM UTC

AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #7

> Speaking at Unreal Fest 2023, Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney said Unreal Engine would become “a licensable piece of software like Maya or Photoshop” with a subscription-based pricing model. SAAS is rent-seeking at its worst. It’s predatory, anti-consumer and downright annoying. I hope this backfires on Epic.

SAAS pays for continued development and support. One upfront license fee returns us to the Microsoft Office 13, 15, 20 etc. world. Marginal differences, little to no support, and new releases for the sake of new revenue. SAAS is far better aligned to customer and business interests.

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#25

Post by anonylizard » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

JamesLeonis wrote: post #12

[flagged]

Its not obvious at all how this is enshittification.

UE5 was previously provided for free in non-video game contexts, as they clearly were trying to expand their presence in say film production. Now they've succeeded, they are charging for it, what is so unfair about it? Are they expected to provide the engine for free?

UE5 is also constantly trying intensive innovation. So the product quality is going up, not going down.

Unity was bombed because it was trying some inane pricing model (imagine UE5 charging moviemakers by number of viewers). And the fact that Unity Engine itself was being heavily neglected.

And fundraising is not relevant when their core business, Fortnite, is declining. Sorry fundraising != charity for employees.

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#26

Post by lholden » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

Very misleading article title.

The licensing changes target big commercial usages outside of game development. (With revenue thresholds, similar to how it already works right now for game development.)

For example, up until now Unreal has seen use in vfx for movie and tv production. The licensing model for Unreal was primarily oriented for game development, which meant that this wasn't generating any revenue for Epic unless that company opted into the optional support plan.

Unlike the crazy situation with Unity, these changes are being announced in advance without affecting usage of previous versions of Unreal.

(Not saying I like or care for subscriptions for software. But context helps understand what's going on here.)

I'm surprised they didn't make this change sooner.

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#27

Post by Night_Thastus » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:12 PM UTC

JamesLeonis wrote: post #12

[flagged]

I don't really see this as "enshittification". This is completely expected and people knew for years something like this was coming.

Epic has been trying to use the money from Fortnite's success to build a more stable platform. They've dumped endless amounts of Fortnite money on paying developers for Epic exclusivity, lower cuts from developers, developing their storefront, developing Unreal Engine, etc.

This was not done out of the goodness of their hearts. They wanted to see a return. They needed to break into the market more and now they have.

Now that they've firmly planted themselves with a lot of games on EGS, and a lot of games using Unreal, they want that return on investment. Not surprising.

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#28

Post by Krutonium » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:12 PM UTC

raytopia wrote: post #8

Honestly it makes sense. I was always a little confused that non-gamedevs had to pay 0. Of course that could've also just been the plan to get VFX and other industries onto Unreal Engine so Epic Games could start charging them later. I'm also confused how Epic Games has become unprofitable suddenly. I think I read somewhere it was in the last 10 weeks but I could be wrong about that.

It's not that they suddenly became unprofitable, it's that they're (partially) owned by Tencent, and Tencent is calling in their dues. Epic took their money to try and unseat Valve, which clearly did not work. Now the economy is taking a dip, so they need money.

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#29

Post by croes » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #23

croes wrote: post #4

>That means that while the developers of big-selling games pay royalties, those who use Unreal Engine for film making and other uses pay nothing. Understandable but could introduce a revenue limit too.

Article does say "There will be minimum revenue thresholds for commercial projecrs, and student/educator use will remain free"

Missed that part, thanks

Re: Unreal Engine will no longer be free for all

#30

Post by PurpleRamen » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #7

> Speaking at Unreal Fest 2023, Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney said Unreal Engine would become “a licensable piece of software like Maya or Photoshop” with a subscription-based pricing model. SAAS is rent-seeking at its worst. It’s predatory, anti-consumer and downright annoying. I hope this backfires on Epic.

Seems fair to let those pay who make significant money with your product. Especially when they screw over other themselves with their creative accounting. At least as long as there are significant costs for the product, like ongoing development.