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Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

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Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#21

Post by thiago_fm »

Very likely for the remote workers that aren't essential for the company, for FAANGs.

Small/middle-sized companies will fight for those talents in the market and offer the remote work flexibility they want.

But I doubt those big employers that pay top salary will continue to have remote workers at all.

The top Big Tech companies are clear monopolies in a way or another and need to continuously find new markets to not be dependant only on their monopolies, because they know it's just time until regulators just jump in and tear apart their dirty money making machines.

In order to do that, they'd rather have people working in a office in the hopes of them being more commited to support them on that goal.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#22

Post by afavour »

gardenhedge wrote: post #19
afavour wrote: post #12

The only real answer here is "who knows?". It's often said that tech workers have no need for unions and (not to reopen that box yet again!) this is exactly the kind of scenario where tech workers could benefit from union representation, even if they're highly paid. Absent that these companies can do more or less whatever they want with remote workers, they're not a protected class.

I'm in a union and got a 1.5% raise, benefits have decreased and we're forced into hybrid working. I'm in a country where I can't just be fired without notice so that union doesnt do much for me there either. I'm just pointing out that unions don't mean you get everything you want.

> I'm just pointing out that unions don't mean you get everything you want.

Sure, a crap union is a crap union. But union representation in general is more likely to result in the rights of remote workers being protected than, what, asking nicely?

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#23

Post by supriyo-biswas »

neogodless wrote: post #10
keikobadthebad wrote: post #3

Something you have to understand about being remote - at any time, this was true decades ago - is that you are not there when people talk and you can't correct them or defend yourself. People with commutes and requirements to be under the eyes of management resent those who don't have that problem and can all agree on that. Remote gigs will always be more tenuous than prison-jobs.

Can you clarify your premise here? When I worked in a building, I would go to meetings, and there I would see co-workers and people would talk to each other in meetings. When I work remotely, I join virtual meetings, and I see co-workers and people talk to each other. In both cases, people can use chat to say things without me seeing. If I am physically in a building, but people are not in the same room as me, they c…

There is a certain activation energy required for discussions to take place, which is quite high in a remote setting.

This isn't a problem by itself, however remote companies need to have a lot more processes around information transfer and team building, which is something companies don't need to actively think about for the most part if they build on-site teams.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#24

Post by mathgeek »

neogodless wrote: post #10
keikobadthebad wrote: post #3

Something you have to understand about being remote - at any time, this was true decades ago - is that you are not there when people talk and you can't correct them or defend yourself. People with commutes and requirements to be under the eyes of management resent those who don't have that problem and can all agree on that. Remote gigs will always be more tenuous than prison-jobs.

Can you clarify your premise here? When I worked in a building, I would go to meetings, and there I would see co-workers and people would talk to each other in meetings. When I work remotely, I join virtual meetings, and I see co-workers and people talk to each other. In both cases, people can use chat to say things without me seeing. If I am physically in a building, but people are not in the same room as me, they c…

I interpreted the meaning to be something along the lines of “remote workers can feel like they have less control of big decisions if an organization also has office workers”. In my experience, it’s an illusion (or delusion).

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#25

Post by nerdjon »

keikobadthebad wrote: post #3

Something you have to understand about being remote - at any time, this was true decades ago - is that you are not there when people talk and you can't correct them or defend yourself. People with commutes and requirements to be under the eyes of management resent those who don't have that problem and can all agree on that. Remote gigs will always be more tenuous than prison-jobs.

There is something to be said about being "known" and visible in the office vs running invisibly in the background.

I know my job I feel like is kinda invisible. There are a few key people I talk too on a regular basis but outside of those small handful of people most of the company don't know I exist except for the rare times I show up the office.

I will also say that as much as I prefer WFH, there is still something lost that just can't be replicated at home without a constant video connection (which... NO). That is the random conversations that can happen that may lead to just a friendship or actually lead to a change at work. I have been part of a lot of projects that would have never happened if it wasn't for a conversation over lunch, in the elevator, or whatever.

People have pain points or ideas that are never formally made for one reason or another.

Personally what I would really like is a mix. WFH 4 days a week and come in 1 day for a meeting, social, etc day. I barely knew my coworkers until we started actually going in every once in a while and doing things outside of work as well.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#26

Post by eddieroger »

neogodless wrote: post #10
keikobadthebad wrote: post #3

Something you have to understand about being remote - at any time, this was true decades ago - is that you are not there when people talk and you can't correct them or defend yourself. People with commutes and requirements to be under the eyes of management resent those who don't have that problem and can all agree on that. Remote gigs will always be more tenuous than prison-jobs.

Can you clarify your premise here? When I worked in a building, I would go to meetings, and there I would see co-workers and people would talk to each other in meetings. When I work remotely, I join virtual meetings, and I see co-workers and people talk to each other. In both cases, people can use chat to say things without me seeing. If I am physically in a building, but people are not in the same room as me, they c…

They're talking about the hallway chats that happen after the meeting, when people move from the conference room back to their cubes. Gotta talk about something as you walk, and if that happens to be in the form of a misrepresentation of your work, you not only can't do anything about it, but you'll never know. In my experience, that's more a reflection on a poor org than the situation. Before the pandemic when I wanted to have a hallway debrief with my coworkers in the office, I pinged them as such and we talked via Skype (then, it was years ago) about the meeting. Sure they'd started without me, but caught me up. It was fine.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#27

Post by eropple »

gardenhedge wrote: post #19
afavour wrote: post #12

The only real answer here is "who knows?". It's often said that tech workers have no need for unions and (not to reopen that box yet again!) this is exactly the kind of scenario where tech workers could benefit from union representation, even if they're highly paid. Absent that these companies can do more or less whatever they want with remote workers, they're not a protected class.

I'm in a union and got a 1.5% raise, benefits have decreased and we're forced into hybrid working. I'm in a country where I can't just be fired without notice so that union doesnt do much for me there either. I'm just pointing out that unions don't mean you get everything you want.

> I'm in a country where I can't just be fired without notice so that union doesnt do much for me there either.

In most countries, this didn't happen out of nowhere.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#28

Post by superasn »

I think these companies need good engineers more than good engineers need these companies.

And at least in the company my brother works (a big tech co but not FAANG) almost 20% of the staff resigned when it was made mandatory for employees to come to office. So I think that is gonna be a huge factor for a lot of these companies.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#29

Post by not-chatgpt »

Worked at a couple FAANG companies and from what I've seen, management is absolutely right that remote work, overall, is inefficient. There was a Blind poll and I believe half the people admitted they were slacking off more frequently while remote.

However, being laid off is just a completely different matter. Depending on the company, the motivation for the layoff could significantly differ. Some did it to save costs, others have quotas to meet, etc. But I believe it is fair to say there is no observable correlation between remote work and chances of being laid off.

Re: Will workers hired as Remote all be laid off in next wave?

#30

Post by kevinsync »

While working for an agency full-time (software), somebody asked me what I do. I said "My job is to make you feel good about whatever it is I may or may not be doing around this place."

This is applicable to all jobs in all industries, full-time or remote -- produce, and make your employer feel good about you being there, and sometimes even that's not enough to avoid the chopping block... but you know what? That's just showbiz, baby.

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