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Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

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Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#41

Post by isaacfung »

hkmaxpro wrote: post #27
csomar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it doesn't give you the idea that China is clamping down on software developers. Unless there is an on-going trend, this is an independent move by some administration out there.

Hu Xijin, the former editor-in-chief of CCP’s mouthpiece Global Times, wrote a Weibo post questioning the confiscation. His Weibo post was later deleted. [0] Whether the post was deleted by himself or by a censor, the central government is complicit in banning VPN and this is more than an independent move by a local government (unless you think the local government has substantial influence on Hu Xijin or the censor)…

You tried to prove these are not independent moves by providing a few incidents out of a 1.4 billion country over a span of several years.

One comment in the first article you linked said 99% of software engineers in china use github.

The CCP is 100% aware that people use vpn to access foreign websites.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#42

Post by throwaway4good »

hker wrote: post #13

Some context which may be relevant: many local governments in China are in heavy debt, and they need more income: police have been collecting more and more fines, causing some outrages [1]. There are reports that many civil servants are unpaid for months (in Tianjin [2] and other cities [3][4]), in addition to getting heavy wage cuts [3][5]. A penalty of over 1 million yuan (>145K USD) for using VPN is a new developm…

So this is because local authorities are short on money? Surely there would be more money in fining people for jaywalking or driving without a bicycle helmet?

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#43

Post by makeitdouble »

whatshisface wrote: post #30
makeitdouble wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda wonder how do you evaluate a thriving software economy in China's case. A bit like Japan, I feel they're not going straight at the OS vendors (Microsoft/Apple) as these will bend over backward to accomadate them anyway, and in every area they've been actively blocked they made their own rival version (e.g. cloud services) Is there anything we can point at to say "Chinese don't have the skills to do it" ?

How anyone can look at over a billion unique people and say "Chinese this" or "Chinese that" is as far beyond me as anything.

I think I'd take a "Ethiopians can't build an AWS rival", even if Ethiopians are unique and intelligent.

But that wouldn't be true for China (don't know market sizes, but I'd assume Tencent's cloud offering for instance is somewhat viable ?)

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross »

isaacfung wrote: post #41
hkmaxpro wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hu Xijin, the former editor-in-chief of CCP’s mouthpiece Global Times, wrote a Weibo post questioning the confiscation. His Weibo post was later deleted. [0] Whether the post was deleted by himself or by a censor, the central government is complicit in banning VPN and this is more than an independent move by a local government (unless you think the local government has substantial influence on Hu Xijin or the censor)…

You tried to prove these are not independent moves by providing a few incidents out of a 1.4 billion country over a span of several years. One comment in the first article you linked said 99% of software engineers in china use github. The CCP is 100% aware that people use vpn to access foreign websites.

> CCP is 100% aware that people use vpn to access foreign websites

And Washington is 100% aware that people do crack. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a systematic law enforcement effort to stamp it out. Just because Beijing isn’t squishing every last developer doesn’t mean China hasn’t fundamentally changed since Xi became dictator.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#45

Post by raverbashing »

bjornsing wrote: post #40

Where I live (Sweden) it’s legal to use GitHub (with or without a VPN). But if I fail to report 138000 USD in earnings I’d still be in for a world of hurt: First the tax authority would take about 100000-200000 USD from me. Then I’d be prosecuted for tax fraud. Nobody would be upset or come to my defense. Not saying I prefer the Chinese system, but it’s interesting that in this specific case it’s probably more lenien…

> But if I fail to report 138000 USD in earnings I’d still be in for a world of hurt: First the tax authority would take about 100000-200000 USD from me. Then I’d be prosecuted for tax fraud

And where in the world do you think this would not be the case? (except maybe in 3rd world countries with bribable authorities)

(such a fine of 100k is probably on the higher end for most places though)

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#46

Post by winrid »

fastball wrote: post #18
aydyn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like he's saying this is not an abuse of the central government, but by a local one. I doubt VPNs are illegal in China in general.

I think they are, no? Otherwise the Great Firewall is kinda pointless.

The firewall also blocks popular VPNs. I got NordVPN before I went and it did not work. My backup VPN on a linode worked - but they would cut it after a bit.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#47

Post by JumpCrisscross »

palata wrote: post #35
_hypx_ wrote: post #3

There's no possibility of China having a competitive tech industry with these kinds of restrictions.

If you take e.g. the drone industry, they are like 10 years ahead of the Western world. And still moving faster, it feels.

> take e.g. the drone industry, they are like 10 years ahead of the Western world

These developments started before Xi became dictator. That’s a turning point for China. Today, Chinese drones are no longer a class ahead of their peers. Which is surprising, because they once were.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#48

Post by eru »

whatshisface wrote: post #30
makeitdouble wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda wonder how do you evaluate a thriving software economy in China's case. A bit like Japan, I feel they're not going straight at the OS vendors (Microsoft/Apple) as these will bend over backward to accomadate them anyway, and in every area they've been actively blocked they made their own rival version (e.g. cloud services) Is there anything we can point at to say "Chinese don't have the skills to do it" ?

How anyone can look at over a billion unique people and say "Chinese this" or "Chinese that" is as far beyond me as anything.

Of course, you can't make universal claims, because there are enough outliers.

But you can easily talk about averages and about statistical distributions.

Eg I'm fairly confident in saying 'the typical Chinese person eats a fair amount of rice'.

Re: Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN

#49

Post by FredPret »

bjornsing wrote: post #40

Where I live (Sweden) it’s legal to use GitHub (with or without a VPN). But if I fail to report 138000 USD in earnings I’d still be in for a world of hurt: First the tax authority would take about 100000-200000 USD from me. Then I’d be prosecuted for tax fraud. Nobody would be upset or come to my defense. Not saying I prefer the Chinese system, but it’s interesting that in this specific case it’s probably more lenien…

Economic freedom is second among the freedoms only after physical safety. With enough money you can buy all the others, and all the others exist primarily to ensure you can be safe and end up with enough money.

This fact is ignored, overlooked, or pooh-poohed by those whose ambitions for society requires a large state.

To maximize human freedom, there's an optimal balance to be struck between a stateless society and one that'll prosecute you as you described. I think the optimum is far toward the "free" end of the spectrum.

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