HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low • Hacker News Board

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#131

Post by orangepurple » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:34 AM UTC

usr1106 wrote: post #82

sacnoradhq wrote: post #2

Even if you only print things once a month, a laser printer is far less wasteful in time, money, and bullshit than ink that's perpetually dry or consumed. Rather than an entry-level laser printer that cannot be economically repaired, a used mid-level enterprise printer is often the cheapest option long term and saves useful electronics from becoming e-waste. Office furniture rental/repo places and secondary markets l…

In the 1990s HP was a great brand. Nowadays it's a nightmare. My neighbor asked me to troubleshoot one. Obviously the whole printer cannot be used without WiFi and a connection to HP cloud nonsense. Only that the cloud and Windows driver could not agree whether the printer had been set up or not. And the neighbor could not remember their HP account. It took me 2 hours to figure out how to do a factory reset. 1990 a p…

Proprietary printer drivers directly contributed to the open source revolution.

Richard Stallman started his journey of free and open source software development because he got triggered by proprietary drivers used by his laser printer

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-nyu-2001-transcript.txt

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#132

Post by hakfoo » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 4:55 AM UTC

aqfamnzc wrote: post #129

sneak wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing, perhaps. The same thing happened there, as I understand it. There’s also a strong argument for post-Jobs Apple being an even more tragic arc (that’s earlier on the curve). Time will tell. These things happen on the order of decades, not years. Brain drain is real.

What's this about Boeing?

Aside from the Max/MCAS fiasco, my remaining respect for Boeing went out the window because I live near one of their plants. Middle of the pandemic, they had employees protesting about mask and vaccine mandates out front, for weeks on end.

You're hiring people that scientifically dense to assemble hundred-million-dollar, high-precision death machines? I hope Airbus has a better HR team.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#133

Post by jmspring » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:04 AM UTC

addaon wrote: post #64

tivert wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which brother do you have / recommend? I have been quiet happy with my OKI but the phone connection is the only letdown so far and I might change for a brother in the future. I have a brother HL-2270dw that I've been using for more than 10 years that I'm happy with. I don't think they make that exact model anymore, but Wirecutter recommends the HL-2350dw (I don't know what you get for the extra $10 to get a HL-2370…

HL-L2350DW checking in here. Zero complaints, zero issues. Just works.

Same

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#134

Post by hakfoo » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:09 AM UTC

One thing I've noticed is that the bottom of the standalone scanner market completely disappeared.

You used to be able to easily find parallel-port flatbed scanners for $50 or less, and they eventually shifted to USB. I suspect it was often used to "fluff out" a PC bundle-- "Buy a $1200 AMD-K6 machine and get a scanner and terrible inkjet printer free!" They were probably more than ample for the "scan in this document we need a copy of" use cases-- a few hundred DPI.

While I still see there are a handful of sub-$100 scanners on the market, it's hardly the variety you used to find. It's like a "compliance" product-- being sold because they need to to fill some obligation rather than a vital market full of advancement.

Also note that it's a lot less easy to do the "recycle quality vintage hardware" thing for scanners than printers. Many of them are stranded with ancient drivers and often no support past WinXP or 7. (Yes, there's things like VueScan for ongoing support, but paying for that impacts the overall math).

I ended up finding a scanner I sort of liked used that did have drivers (Epson V39, I wanted something USB powered because I don't have room for any more power bricks) but it involved way too much Googling in the electronics aisle of secondhand shops.

I assume that this is because the market has basically assumed anyone not buying commercial-grade stuff will buy an all-in-one reliability nightmare that won't scan without yellow ink. This sort of thing didn't occur in other markets: They sold low-end VCRs and DVD players built into crappy TVs, but they also still sold standalone ones.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#135

Post by farseer » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:13 AM UTC

I have been using using the HP P2055 network printer for almost two decades now with bootleg toner. Never had a problem, the thing is built like a tank.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#136

Post by carom » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:23 AM UTC

I bought the best printer on wire cutter a few years ago, it was an HP ink jet. That was the biggest piece of garbage I ever bought. It would refuse to print when it was low on ink. It would be low on some random color despite me printing in black and white, rarely at that. It locked me out over using after market ink.

I bought a brother laser jet and love it.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#137

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:39 AM UTC

hakfoo wrote: post #134

One thing I've noticed is that the bottom of the standalone scanner market completely disappeared. You used to be able to easily find parallel-port flatbed scanners for $50 or less, and they eventually shifted to USB. I suspect it was often used to "fluff out" a PC bundle-- "Buy a $1200 AMD-K6 machine and get a scanner and terrible inkjet printer free!" They were probably more than ample for the "scan in this documen…

I picked up a colour laser Brother MFC for $100 three years ago, with 600 DPI scanner / copier. Wifi printing from our phones works with no additional setup than having the printer connected to wifi.

It needed new drums and toners, and continues to function like new to this day.

Not quite $50, but $100 Australian, so not far off.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#138

Post by deely3 » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:40 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #26

Tepix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays there are inkjet printers that are cheaper (cost per page) than laser printers. I would only get one if i were to print regularly, however. And never again HP of course.

Examples? My research showed some inexpensive inkjets had reasonable cost per pages, but when you’re talking 10+k pages per month lasers easily win. They also win at the ultra low, 1 page per month side of things.

Canon Pixma series with built-in toner tanks that you can refill yourself with cheap ink. Using it for years, print everyday, sometime I print full color books. So far I spent like $15 on ink.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#139

Post by karolist » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 5:42 AM UTC

addaon wrote: post #64

tivert wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which brother do you have / recommend? I have been quiet happy with my OKI but the phone connection is the only letdown so far and I might change for a brother in the future. I have a brother HL-2270dw that I've been using for more than 10 years that I'm happy with. I don't think they make that exact model anymore, but Wirecutter recommends the HL-2350dw (I don't know what you get for the extra $10 to get a HL-2370…

HL-L2350DW checking in here. Zero complaints, zero issues. Just works.

Another happy HL-L2350DW user. So happy in fact, I've bought one for my mom and one for her aunt and they too have zero issues and I've never had to hear about it again after setting it up. This is how printers should be.

Re: HP fails to derail claims that it bricks scanners on printers when ink runs low

#140

Post by Tao3300 » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 6:13 AM UTC

cyberax wrote: post #124

usr1106 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1990s HP was a great brand. Nowadays it's a nightmare. My neighbor asked me to troubleshoot one. Obviously the whole printer cannot be used without WiFi and a connection to HP cloud nonsense. Only that the cloud and Windows driver could not agree whether the printer had been set up or not. And the neighbor could not remember their HP account. It took me 2 hours to figure out how to do a factory reset. 1990 a p…

> 1990 a printer was a peripheral and if you had a driver it worked. LOL no. Printing and scanning have ALWAYS been terrible. A fortune cookie somewhere: "GNU is a printer driver gone horribly wrong". I have a theory that printer drivers are somehow produced by aliens, who are hellbent on destroying the Earth's infrastructure.

There was a brief golden age where it wasn't so bad, banded on both sides by dark ages. Some time in the 90s. Trying to remember the last time you could get away with just printing in blue if the black ran out.