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ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

aboutchromebooks.com

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Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#111
The team has both made a ton of effort switching off their proprietary Skia based rendering tech and adopting standard Wayland, and has put forward huge effort to making running incredibly well integrated real Linux containers just work.

The headline is true. ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment. But it obfuscates the details. It's a damned by omission statement. It has some really good sauce to help you not notice often, but it's not at all a Linux desktop environment one can regularly use. You can do a lot of Linux desktop-y things but only through well crafted special unique wrapped processes that mostly but not fully help mock & emulate a regular Linux desktop. Even though it now runs Wayland, the apps you want to run will have atypical intermediates up the wazoo.

And no one else uses any of this tech. ChromiumOs has so much interesting container tech, does such an interesting job making containers think they have a regular Linux / FreeDesktop environment. It's far far far far deeper virtualization than for example https://github.com/containers/toolbox . But you know what? Google has made zero effort to get these pieces adopted elsewhere. It's open source but not intended for use outside Chromium/ChromeOS. I respect & think ChromeOS is a quite viable Linux, and it's so much closer to the metal & more interesting, amazing tech, but my gods Microsoft has gone 300x further to establish wsl2 as a sustainable community effort folks could use & target, in a way that ChromiumOS has done nothing about.

It's sad how Google has transformed from a company that appreciated & worked with ecosystems, that drove things collectively forward, into an individual player that does their own things & delivers from on high. ChromiumOS is such an incredible effort, but it's so internernally drive & focused, and it's hard to believe in such a wildcat effort, even though it's so so good. It keeps coming into better alignment with Linux Desktop actual, but via shims and emulations that no one else cares about or which seems marketed elsewhere. And that inward focus makes the whole effort both so exceptional & promising, but suspect. Such a different nearby but alternative & separately governed universe. ChromiumOS/ChromeOS do excellent at faking being a Linux desktop, and wonderfully have increasingly drawn more strength from that universe, but are still wholly their own very distinct very separate very controller other space. In many ways that's great, secure, good, and miraculously transparently done. But it's still hard to really trust, being such a weird alien impostor, faking so much for end user apps, and there's tension in believing ChromeOS will keep straddling the rift in pro-user manifestations forever.

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#112
post #31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do google developers develop on Chromebooks ?

So wait to be specific here -- is the setup that people develop on: 1. chrome-os device 2. install a debian VM 3. do all their development in a VM where they can easily install packages they need etc? 4. so they are doing dev in a VM on a core-i3 intel machine I guess?

If the question is about Google, they use the Chromebooks to connect to cloud hosted dev environments. Often these days that's the internal cloud based IDE whose UI is VSCode based.

For many legacy command line tasks, you SSH to a cloud workstation. More than ever though, you can get away with a lot of programming tasks without ever touching a terminal.

For those who really want a traditional Linux Desktop environment, you use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to the same cloud VM that you SSH to.

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#113
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kids can't code locally on a git repo on Chromebooks and run make; they don't even have a terminal. Googlers only code remotely on Chromebooks. The kids MUST be able to run `pytest arithmetic.ipynb` on whichever platform. (It was not appropriate for Google 2016-2020 (?) to decide that we should all accept WASM runtime vulnerabilities in sandboxed browser processes running as the same user instead of per-app SELin…

I'm still not understanding the criticism. You're saying it's bad that kids can't hack on their school-supplied/parent-managed computers. And... I think I agree, as far as it goes. But you're responding to a thread saying "Chromebooks are good for Developers", where's it's just not responsive. There's absolutely no reason schools or parents can't hand kids unmanaged/unrestricted Chromebooks; they just choose not to (…

The relevant question is whether students are empowered to do actual STEM work (in git, with python, and notebooks and/or an actual IDE) in application of the K12CS Q12 STEM curricula.

There should be a specification of things that we need the computers we buy for the students to support; a rubric to consider in acquisitions and discussions with vendors attempting to solve for the needs of education and learning.

Seriously, compare the results of canned flash games (with metrics) vs locally coding math to do a scientific experiment or solve immediately-graded exercises with code.

I've reviewed the curated app catalogs here and TBH the tragic gap is perhaps at "how to computer math" [in notebooks in a version controlled (e.g. git) repo] [in Python [with JupyterLite or vscode.dev w/o devpod/codespaces [due to Chromebooks]]]; just a video of Arithmetic in notebooks instead of a calculator.

GeoGebra and Desmos are neat. Geogebra has a CAS (Computer Algebra System) built-in, but it's not Python with test assertions. And when the canned math app e.g. fails with weird complex exponents of e, it's a good idea to reach for Python (or Julia, or R, or) instead of only the apps in the Play Store.

Exercise: Install Git and Python (maybe in Termux from Fdroid) on a Chromebook, then run repo2podman {with a FamilyLink account,}

Exercise 2: Create a Jupyter Notebook on a Chromebook and save it to work on from home {with Gapps Edu and Family Link} when Colab isn't allowable and JupyterLite doesn't have a gdrive plugin yet.

Containers in a local devpod (~codespaces) VM for the students might solve.

This should also work on computers to support real-world STEM workflows:

   make test
  make clean

    

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#114
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still going and Google still refuses to explain why it exists. It was rumored that some of the team was laid off during recent cost cutting.

It’s not rumored. It was widely reported on and many people discussed their impact publicly. Fuchsia is shipping on real devices today (their home hubs) although yea it’s not clear why, they now have quite a few operating systems they manage. 1. Android of course. Chrome casts and phones and tablets use this. 2. Fuchsia for the home hubs. 3. ChromeOS for the chromebooks and stuff. 4. GCP probably has a cloud Linux li…

So more like

1. Linux - with some variations of user land based on use case. Primarily ChromeOS and Android.

2. Fuchsia - with unknown motivations and use cases

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There’s no reason schools or parents can’t hand kids unmanaged/unrestricted Chromebooks Holy cow. Are you serious? Kids break stuff for fun. This is basically a “You’re holding it wrong” argument. Schools are gonna have heavily managed chromebooks, because it’s the reality on the ground that they can hardly afford anything, much less insane IT support for every student. Like, kids are going to actively sabotage the…

Virtually any Linux distro can be turned into a managed OS.

Something could manage access to and the run state of containers (just like APKs and other apps running without `ps -Z`) so that the state of the machine can be reset.

And then an instructor could specify policy that would affect which apps and containers run on the machines attached to the management domain (e.g. at test-taking time and also all of the times)

Comparing etckeeper and rpm-ostree's diffs of /etc lately

(where e.g. LVM or btrfs CoW snapshots would need eventual compaction)

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this very hard to believe. There is no "$200 Chromebook" that will ever out-perform a "high-end" machine no matter if it's running Windows + WSL2 or not. So what are the specs of this "high-end" machine?

I meant to say that it "outperforms" less in terms of speed (although it's not bad relative to the price of the laptop) but more in terms of developer experience. Everything just works in Linux and it's fast compared to WSL which I get constant issues.

This sounds like it is more about GUI latency due to a more agile desktop environment.

Sort of like how a Pentium 3 feels snappy on Windows XP and yet, this 13th Gen Intel Core i5 on Windows 11 feels sluggish. There is WAY more processing power on my newer machine but it doesn't translate to a snappy interface.

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#118
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still not understanding the criticism. You're saying it's bad that kids can't hack on their school-supplied/parent-managed computers. And... I think I agree, as far as it goes. But you're responding to a thread saying "Chromebooks are good for Developers", where's it's just not responsive. There's absolutely no reason schools or parents can't hand kids unmanaged/unrestricted Chromebooks; they just choose not to (…

The relevant question is whether students are empowered to do actual STEM work (in git, with python, and notebooks and/or an actual IDE) in application of the K12CS Q12 STEM curricula. There should be a specification of things that we need the computers we buy for the students to support; a rubric to consider in acquisitions and discussions with vendors attempting to solve for the needs of education and learning. Ser…

OK, you're simply having a different argument, and I frankly don't even disagree. "Schools should let kids run stuff in Crostini" is something I think we can both get behind.

But nonetheless schools don't (and never have, FWIW), and it's not the OS's fault that they use important and desirable manageability features to do it.

Re: ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment

#119
post #92

Can I install Firefox without jumping through a bunch of hoops and without it feeling like a second class experience?

Yes.

I use Firefox on my work Chromebook so I can access my personal Gmail while logged in as my work account.

It integrates perfectly and is installed as easily as e.g. vscode is. The do not put up any barriers just because it is Firefox.

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