Bluetooth and WiFi both borrow their spectrum from microwave ovens. It's typical and expected that microwave ovens will cause some interference with other users of the 2.4GHz ISM band that are very nearby. Microwaves operate at very high power levels and are required to be shielded for human safety, but the permissible leakage power is relatively high compared to typical WiFi and Bluetooth devices---there's a simple…
Also, to the best of my understanding, the only known risk to human safety of a microwave without proper shielding is injury due to the heating of human tissue. Not like that's a good reason to ignore any potential health concerns, but I used to have the misconception that it was much more dangerous, e.g. could cause cancer, but, of course, ionizing radiation is much, much higher frequency.
Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
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Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#142Bluetooth and WiFi both borrow their spectrum from microwave ovens. It's typical and expected that microwave ovens will cause some interference with other users of the 2.4GHz ISM band that are very nearby. Microwaves operate at very high power levels and are required to be shielded for human safety, but the permissible leakage power is relatively high compared to typical WiFi and Bluetooth devices---there's a simple…
And on the follow-up, "Why use 2.4(5) GHz for microwaves?" Because it happens to be a convenient frequency that water absorbs readily, which is the easiest way of heating up what we'd want to heat with a microwave (read: food). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_... And once we'd polluted the frequency for any stable commercial use, why not use this weird carve-out for a little thing called W…
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#143One thing is Bluetooth. Imagine spending 4 years trying to figure out the source of some mysterious signals registered by your giant radio telescope, only to find it was due to the microwave[1][2] used by the operators to heat hot pockets or whatever. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/05/microwave-ov... [2]: https://www.nature.com/articles/521129f
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#144My data is anecdotal, but I've observed that Panasonic inverter ovens that I've used interfered in the 2.4GHz range, while models of other brands (e.g. GE) have not. (This is unfortunate because Panasonic seems to be the only brand that can actually adjust power output, whereas the others simulate lower power levels by cycling on and off.)
I know of at least two Panasonic inverter microwaves that failed within a 5 year period of ownership. Mine emitted white smoke warming up some tea while I was in another room. I hope to God it wasn’t beryllium. I still have a Panasonic OTR microwave, but it’s inverterless. It appears to be an improved design of a GE model from the same OEM.
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#145Bluetooth and WiFi both borrow their spectrum from microwave ovens. It's typical and expected that microwave ovens will cause some interference with other users of the 2.4GHz ISM band that are very nearby. Microwaves operate at very high power levels and are required to be shielded for human safety, but the permissible leakage power is relatively high compared to typical WiFi and Bluetooth devices---there's a simple…
And on the follow-up, "Why use 2.4(5) GHz for microwaves?" Because it happens to be a convenient frequency that water absorbs readily, which is the easiest way of heating up what we'd want to heat with a microwave (read: food). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_... And once we'd polluted the frequency for any stable commercial use, why not use this weird carve-out for a little thing called W…
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#146There's about 1000 watts of RF inside the microwave, it has to be attenuated to less than a few microwatts on the outside to avoid congestion, as they use the same frequency band. I'm amazed WiFi or Bluetooth ever works at all. 8) You can thank Hedy Lamar for that. Try cleaning the mating surfaces around the door thoroughly. If that doesn't work, consider replacing the microwave or relocating the speaker.
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#147PS and yes, my friend once found rust hole in old microwave, so this is not very rare thing.
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
But we need to switch off WiFi and Bluetooth
That's because the equipment installed in the galley is going to be tested for operation with the specific aircraft. Meanwhile phone radios (not WiFi, not Bluetooth) used to have interference issues with various aviation systems (with some 5G bands still causing issues). Additionally, outside of interference issues from phone systems (and various other non-ISM band radios), the order helps preventing people from doin…
As far as the FAA is concerned as long as you can demonstrate (through standard tests) that a class of aircraft is tolerant of electronic devices (which the manufacturers can do), it’s up to the airline if they want to allow it. They’ve even greatly simplified the process due to the explosion of different electronic devices over the last couple decades. This covers your cell phone in the same way it does an e reader or anything else. [0] There are basically no substantiated instances of portable electronics interfering with aircraft. Certainly not the number you’d expect given the massive number of devices that transit on a massive number of planes every day at this point.
The restriction on usage comes from the FCC, applies specifically to using land mobile frequencies from aircraft, and is not out of concern for safety of the aircraft.
Things getting up into VHF, UHF and above are “line of sight” propagation. If you can draw a straight line between two points without hitting anything that will attenuate the signal… it’ll pretty much go anywhere. Voyager 1 is transmitting 15 billion miles to us on 8GHz with a 23 watt radio. Your cell phone can put out around 3 watts. People called in to ham radio nets in Vancouver, BC from Seattle, WA on a 5W handheld radio just by going to the top of the Space Needle. People regularly make contact with the ISS or satellites on similar power. A large limiting factor to the distance is the height of the transmitter. Thanks to the curvature of the Earth, over enough distance, that straight line between the two points will begin to intersect the Earth which works great to attenuate the signals to nothing. Getting higher up lets you "shout" further out.
Your cell phone transmitting at 3 watts from that kind of altitude is potentially hitting dozens or hundreds of cell towers. Frequencies which are intended to be shared among inhabitatants in a maybe dozen mile radius now need to be shared across hundreds of miles, reducing the bandwidth available for everyone. And the weak signal will cause interference substantially further.
The FCC limited transmissions while on an aircraft to prevent interference with ground communications, and continues to because there isn’t enough evidence that they won’t.
[0] https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/...
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#149Bluetooth and WiFi both borrow their spectrum from microwave ovens. It's typical and expected that microwave ovens will cause some interference with other users of the 2.4GHz ISM band that are very nearby. Microwaves operate at very high power levels and are required to be shielded for human safety, but the permissible leakage power is relatively high compared to typical WiFi and Bluetooth devices---there's a simple…
Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does
#150Everyone, who see possible interference from microwave, should ask nearest service and make checks, as this could be manufacturer defect or just leakage of old insulation (rust under paint), and it could be dangerous for health. PS and yes, my friend once found rust hole in old microwave, so this is not very rare thing.