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Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

ronpatrickstuff.com

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Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#91
post #54

Seems like a good time to ask this question that has been bugging me forever, since all the HN jet nerds will be drawn to this thread: Why hasn't anyone made a hybrid car that uses a gasoline-powered turbine generator to charge its batteries instead of a piston engine? I'd imagine that hooking up such an engine directly to the drivetrain like in a Prius would be difficult, but surely a small turbine with one hell of…

I've been wondering about this very same question a lot myself and accidentally stumbled across the answer just a few days ago: Efficiency of turbines smaller than grid scale is simply not anywhere close to what piston engines can do at e.g. car size. Even at naval scale, turbines only win in use cases where power density is more important than fuel efficiency. Helicopters are deep in the (specific) camp of power den…

The bit about the naval use and efficiency isn't quite accurate.

The issue isn't that they're not efficient. It's that they are only efficient at high power level, and the minimum power level they're efficient at (and even their minimum power level, period) - is quite high. To compare: Britain's current aircraft carrier has four diesels that total 40MW...combined those diesels equal one of its two 40MW turbines.

This minimum power level is why jet airplanes have an APU, and often taxi with just one engine running, with the second started up with enough time to get up to operating temperature for takeoff.

Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_MT30

~40MW, minimum efficient power level 25MW.

25MW, even if it's very efficient in terms of turning kerosene into shaft power, means the ship is moving really fast, and thus there's enormous fuel consumption and drag.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#94

Seems like a good time to ask this question that has been bugging me forever, since all the HN jet nerds will be drawn to this thread: Why hasn't anyone made a hybrid car that uses a gasoline-powered turbine generator to charge its batteries instead of a piston engine? I'd imagine that hooking up such an engine directly to the drivetrain like in a Prius would be difficult, but surely a small turbine with one hell of…

The military has made several "micro turbine generators" Here is a report on one:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA515623

My guess the answer to your question would be cost.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#95
post #25
post #2

Apparently the post is from 2006. I wonder if this contraption is still street-legal.

It would be legal to run it on the factory engine, at which point the jet is just cargo. If you start the jet on a public road, it could be considered a public nuisance, reckless driving, etc. If a the vehicle presents a clear and present danger of any kind it is a-priory a ticketable offence at least. With the jet off, it poses no such danger.

And for California, don't forget "Exhibition of speed" which is a rather nasty ticket to end up with.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#96
post #31

nice... does anyone remember a K Car with a supercar engine? that was not quite as crazy as this one, no jet engine, but it was nice. i can't seem to find it but i remember reading about this "sleeper car".

Crazy engine swaps are not uncommon. There are some Fiat 500s and such with v8 double motorcycle engines, wankels or even v12s and racecar v6s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52W20Z38Bw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6SZuionhqQ A turbine is relatively exotic, if only because they are even more impractical.

IIRC someone put a turbocharged 7L smallblock V8 in the back of a Lotus Exige, though they had to lengthen the chassis to make it fit.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#97

Seems like a good time to ask this question that has been bugging me forever, since all the HN jet nerds will be drawn to this thread: Why hasn't anyone made a hybrid car that uses a gasoline-powered turbine generator to charge its batteries instead of a piston engine? I'd imagine that hooking up such an engine directly to the drivetrain like in a Prius would be difficult, but surely a small turbine with one hell of…

To add to the discussion - the M1 Abrams tank uses a turbine. I don't know how that's linked up to the tracks though.

The turboshaft is linked to reduction gearing. I’m not sure how it’s linked to the sprocket that drives the tracks but it’s probably a chain, like on a motorcycle.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#98
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an ICE that drives a generator (alternator?) to power a traction motor(s), without being mechanically linked to the drivetrain, is how diesel locomotives operate. I believe the concept also has been (is being?) explored for linehaul trucks. But I'm not sure what constraints there are on passenger vehicles though... I'm also curious. If I had to guess, I would bet that the constraints are more commercial than p…

Union Pacific tried using turbines in the 50s[0] but fuel consumption was an issue (I think they had to keep the turbine idling and maybe throttling wasn't as easy?). Also mentioned in the wiki article was the low-grade fuel they were used was able to be used for plastic manufacturing instead of just burning it. The bigger difference between locomotive applications and GPs question is around charging batteries as opp…

Diesels idle pretty efficiently whereas jet turbines have very high minimum amounts of power.

In terms of efficiency losses between the turbine, generator, battery, and motor - no, not really; look at most modern hybrid cars.

Lithium ion battery coulombic efficiency is in the high 90's percentage-wise, by the way.

I would imagine that we might see hybrid turbine locomotives as battery power density and cost continue to improve.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#99

Seems like a good time to ask this question that has been bugging me forever, since all the HN jet nerds will be drawn to this thread: Why hasn't anyone made a hybrid car that uses a gasoline-powered turbine generator to charge its batteries instead of a piston engine? I'd imagine that hooking up such an engine directly to the drivetrain like in a Prius would be difficult, but surely a small turbine with one hell of…

But they have

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

Turbines get more efficient as they get bigger.

Re: Ron Patrick's Street-Legal Jet Powered Volkswagen Beetle (2006)

#100
post #48

Seems like a good time to ask this question that has been bugging me forever, since all the HN jet nerds will be drawn to this thread: Why hasn't anyone made a hybrid car that uses a gasoline-powered turbine generator to charge its batteries instead of a piston engine? I'd imagine that hooking up such an engine directly to the drivetrain like in a Prius would be difficult, but surely a small turbine with one hell of…

Having an ICE that drives a generator (alternator?) to power a traction motor(s), without being mechanically linked to the drivetrain, is how diesel locomotives operate. I believe the concept also has been (is being?) explored for linehaul trucks. But I'm not sure what constraints there are on passenger vehicles though... I'm also curious. If I had to guess, I would bet that the constraints are more commercial than p…

The MBTA uses jet engines as giant hairdryers to melt snow off the Mattapan High Speed Line [0]. I’m not sure if it’s also serving as the prime mover, but even if not it’s still an interesting and unusual application.

[0] https://youtu.be/DL6jKOCeVec

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