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Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

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Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#71

Back to the early 2000s ... it is amazing development, but why and how it was allowed to come to the current situation must be discussed and prevented from repeating.

I think a lot of how we got the current situation was Apple. They proved that most people don't care about modularity/repairability, and they argued reasons why closed/locked-down is better (and some of those arguments weren't entirely without merit, despite being self-serving). This convinced a lot of decision-makers to go that route.

I think the overall trend is still toward Steve Job's vision. Looking at Tesla for example, does not fill me with optimism of a modular/repairable future.

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#72

"(Lenovo) said people buy new smartphones every other year but became accustomed used to buying new PCs every six or seven years. The industry needs to do better at motivating people to buy new devices" https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/microsofts-panos-panay-expla...

Back through the 90s and 00s, I think that ~3 years was the norm, at least for the part of the population that even owned computers. But since then, there are fewer major improvements coming that fast. GPUs improve, but most people aren't hardcore gamers for whome that matters, and these can mostly be upgraded independent of the computer itself instead. Other than that, if you're mostly just using your web browser, a…

It did feel around ~2012 or so was when computer/laptop upgrades stopped mattering, roughly coinciding with the switch to SSDs from HDDs.

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#73
post #61

Friendly reminder that Lenovo has repeatedly shipped laptops infested with malware and backdoors ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in... ) sometimes doing so in exchange for money. They've also hidden malware in UEFI so that even reformatting your hard drive wouldn't help. In one case, after they were found out they first claimed "we have thoroughly investigated this technology and do not fi…

this is just propaganda that was consumer side Lenovo laptops, IdeaPad and the like 7+ years ago. They learned their lesson and even there don't do it any more. This didn't affect ThinkPads. Every time Lenovo is mentioned someone brings this up and I am thoroughly sick of it.

History is not propaganda. Lenovo repeatedly sold out their customers, lied to them, and put them at risk of everything from spying to remote code execution. They've more than earned their reputation and it should haunt them every time they are mentioned.

Maybe after several decades have gone by without incident I might consider that they've changed their ways, but I sure wouldn't count on that happening.

Here's them still not having learned their lesson in Feb of 2021 https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/03/lenovo_indelible_adwa...

Here's them still not having learned their lesson in April of 2022 https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-patches-uefi-vulnerabil...

Today, I wouldn't trust this company to make an alarm clock (https://blog.talosintelligence.com/vulnerability-spotlight-h...) let alone a laptop.

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#74
post #70

Friendly reminder that Lenovo has repeatedly shipped laptops infested with malware and backdoors ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in... ) sometimes doing so in exchange for money. They've also hidden malware in UEFI so that even reformatting your hard drive wouldn't help. In one case, after they were found out they first claimed "we have thoroughly investigated this technology and do not fi…

Would the UEFI malware affect a non-windows OS installed on that machine?

It definitely could if they wanted it to. I'm less worried about that because of the threat of PR blowback that helps keep them in check, but if it's really important to you then you should probably avoid Lenovo. Frame.work is quite a nice option.

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#75

Friendly reminder that Lenovo has repeatedly shipped laptops infested with malware and backdoors ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in... ) sometimes doing so in exchange for money. They've also hidden malware in UEFI so that even reformatting your hard drive wouldn't help. In one case, after they were found out they first claimed "we have thoroughly investigated this technology and do not fi…

agreed, i was about to comment "but will these 4 out of 5 devices allow removal of the lenovo crapware?"

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#76
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is just propaganda that was consumer side Lenovo laptops, IdeaPad and the like 7+ years ago. They learned their lesson and even there don't do it any more. This didn't affect ThinkPads. Every time Lenovo is mentioned someone brings this up and I am thoroughly sick of it.

Lenovo got fined for $3.5M for installing spyware that hijacks HTTPS connections, so it’s a bit stretch to call it propaganda https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-receives-3-5m-fine-for-... When a company engages to such deceptive business and outright illegal business practices, there is little reason to trust them for a decade or two until we can be sure everyone who worked there by the time is gone.

> until we can be sure everyone who worked there by the time is gone.

That seems a little extreme. I always maintain a skeptical eye, but most corporate leaders have an eye for profits and PR, and their personal integrity/moral compass doesn't play a large role in their decision making. As long as it's bad/risky PR for Lenovo to do stuff like that, the incentives are on our side. Always be watching though, and I personally favor vendors who have good track records.

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#77
Probably 10 years ago, my brother installed some new RAM in his Lenovo laptop on Christmas day, after which point it refused to turn on - with either the new or old RAM. We contacted Lenovo and they sent someone out to our house about 2 days later to replace then entire motherboard. (They installed the new RAM, and the laptop worked great after that.)

It left me with the impression that Lenovo had questionable quality / end-user repairability, but excellent support (as long as it's still under warranty!)

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#78
post #40
post #37

I always hear about how modern laptops and smartphones “aren’t repairable” and then I spent a week in Shenzhen.. where there were floors and floors of independent repair people doing specialized fixes to the most intricate parts. I had an old Apple Watch repair for about $20, only to discover that I got ripped off — I could have negotiated it down to much less.

Shenzhen - where stolen iPhones magically appear on Find My because they are getting used for parts. It's not truly repairable if no parts are available.

Just wait a few years... :D

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#79
Anecdote:

My employer recently bought me a Lenovo Legion 5 Pro. Due to concussions and general flicker sensitivity, I don't do well with 60Hz screens, and I prefer AMD CPUs. This one came with a 240Hz screen. Overkill!

But... Bluetooth was unreliable. Every few hours, it vanished from Windows as if it didn't exist. A moment of sleep and wake was enough to bring it back, but it was still annoying to lose mouse and headphones unexpectedly.

Two support calls, but all they did was reinstall a bunch of the driver updates I had already reinstalled (and they installed Geforce Experience because Vantage said it was available.) Unsurprisingly, none of that fixed the issue. The next step was a factory reset and/or replacement, which would've been a big PITA because of time I already spent doing setup. And it still might not have solved the issue.

Instead, I spent $23 on an Intel AX210 WLAN/Bluetooth chip, and performed the replacement (of a Realtek chip) in well under 10 minutes. Taking off the bottom panel was relatively easy, and I did not see any damaged clips. M.2 and SODIMM chips are readily replaceable, and so was this WLAN chip. It also fixed my problem completely without resorting to losing a lot of time repeating my setup.

If there's a point, it's that budget and mid-range gaming laptops are often quite repairable, where as thin and light / ultrabooks, especially those made for businesses are much less frequently repairable. I think the reason is two-fold... in general businesses will just pay for repairs, even when it means sending a device back. And of course smaller machines tend to get soldered components and optimize for size instead of access.

You have to think about the compromises you're willing to make, or to have built into your purchases.

Re: Lenovo PC boss: 4 in 5 of our devices will be repairable by 2025

#80

Probably 10 years ago, my brother installed some new RAM in his Lenovo laptop on Christmas day, after which point it refused to turn on - with either the new or old RAM. We contacted Lenovo and they sent someone out to our house about 2 days later to replace then entire motherboard. (They installed the new RAM, and the laptop worked great after that.) It left me with the impression that Lenovo had questionable qualit…

>It left me with the impression that Lenovo had questionable quality

I have 5 old Thinkpads, all still operational. Some are now 10+ years old, and have been passed on to children. They've been through hell and still work. They are the toughest laptops I've owned, and they have repair manuals to boot. Nearly everything is replaceable.

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