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The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

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631–640 of 653 posts

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of practice is not as uncommon as one might assume. It is extremely common for manufacturers to set a minimum advertised price (MAP) on the products they sell to retailers. This is done to keep the cost of, say, luxury goods above a certain value, or to ensure that even if demand falls off for a product, the product is sold from official channels at a price point that covers the raw-materials-plus-labor cos…

> Why is this behavior legal for manufacturers but maybe not for Amazon? I can see no other reason than the law is path-dependent and arbitrary. Market share => market power => different regulations. (Of course, I would personally prefer to ban this behavior across the board; I just wanted to also point out that treating Amazon differently could plausibly be reasonable)

Those arrows also flow in reverse just as well. Whatever arbitrary decisions are made will advantage some other entity which may or may not currently exist.

Different regulations => market power => market share.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#632
post #593

This is getting silly on the same level like the EU demanding Netflix to pay a certain percentage to local movie funds or enforcing certain rules to platforms owned by Meta to protect "user interests" about which no user really cares about. Amazon is not a self-evident service run submissive on behalf of the citizens. It's a private company. Nobody forces to do business with amazon nor is one forced to buy anything f…

The unlimited “freedom of contract” is an idea that the US Supreme Court reversed position on in the 1930s – merely 30 years after it was invented – and for good reason. For those wondering, “freedom of contract” as a term of art is essentially the idea that a government cannot regulate the behavior of parties to a contract, because the involved parties have some unlimited power of contract. The US Supreme Court foun…

The Court reversed its position because many of justices that supported the Lochner case retired only to be filled in by political allies friendly to the New Deal like senator-turned-judge Byron White. The ones that remained were allegedly pressured by the Roosevelt administration's threats to pack the court (i.e. the switch in time to save nine). Regardless, the actual jurisprudence on Lochner hasn't been rebutted, only deemed unpopular by both wings of the court. The conservatives, due to the invocation of substantive due process, and the social progressives, due to their general aversion to recognize negative economic rights. Law schools will cite Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.'s lone dissent as "proof" of Lochner's failings, but a close study of it (and of Holmes's legal "realism" as a whole) reveals it to be fallacious, hypocritical, and nihilistic.

In addition, your definition is inconsistent with the standard applied by Lochner or the Constitution. In the majority opinion of Lochner, the power of contract was not unlimited, as the court deemed health regulations in general as a proper exercise of the state's police powers. However, the State of New York had to demonstrate that its health law regarding employee hours was not employment regulation in disguise (hint: it was) and that any such regulation did not infringe upon the protection of rights afforded by the 14th amendment (hint: it did)

Contrary to your statement, freedom of contract had preceded Lochner for over a century. Article 1 Section 10 of the Constitution explicitly recognizes that the states may not inter alia impair contracts. The Contracts Clause has been invoked in Fletcher v. Peck and Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward. Both cases form the bedrock of modern contract jurisprudence today.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#633
post #574
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that fraud? Ebay is brokering a deal between two parties. It doesn't seem inherently fraudulent to offer differing prices to each party.

The deal I make with eBay is "I sell X for whatever the highest bidder pays, and then pay a percentage of that to Ebay for services rendered" (10% IIRC). That is: I would get $315 and eBay $35, but instead what happened is that I get $270 and eBay $80. Note that it DIDN'T list a "higher price for the buyer"; people were bidding so that price was correct. What it did was list a LOWER price to the seller. This is like…

I see what you mean and indeed that does sound fraudulent. Initially it had seemed to me sort of like ebay acting as a middle man and buying from you/selling to the buyer but them saying they sold your item for X price when they did not sounds cut and dry.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "What about Kirkland" -ism is irrelevant. A big company can stall a copyright lawsuit for as long as it wants. Small companies cannot win against a large compamy like Amazon in court. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-14-fi-19337-... Especially when they can just twist the court system however they wish. Small victories like the chain wrench lawsuit against Sears happen. But they are rare. https://…

It’s not whataboutism at all. Only people that don’t know that housebrands have been a thing forever would think that the evil Amazon is doing something unique. And CVS follows the formula of name brand OTC drugs down to the very ingrediant to make house brands. You can’t copyright a shirt measurement. And before you call me an “Amazon shill”. I got PIPed from Amazon less than two months ago. I’m the last person who…

The major difference here is that Amazon has major market power as an online mall.

Like with the sears example, large 'mall' like organizations do outright steal designs and stonewall the original copyright holder.

A random housebrand does not have access to Amazon's statistics, logistics or reach. Amazon is looking at stats that they hide from their providers, to choose who to copy, then out-price the original seller. (Due to inhouse logistics)

They are not even remotely the same thing.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#635
post #574
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that fraud? Ebay is brokering a deal between two parties. It doesn't seem inherently fraudulent to offer differing prices to each party.

The deal I make with eBay is "I sell X for whatever the highest bidder pays, and then pay a percentage of that to Ebay for services rendered" (10% IIRC). That is: I would get $315 and eBay $35, but instead what happened is that I get $270 and eBay $80. Note that it DIDN'T list a "higher price for the buyer"; people were bidding so that price was correct. What it did was list a LOWER price to the seller. This is like…

Are you in a state with sales tax? eBay is required by law to collect sales tax from the buyer, and it does not get passed on to you (nor does it go to eBay, it goes to the state taxing authority). As you are currently describing the issue, it makes absolutely no sense otherwise.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#636
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deal I make with eBay is "I sell X for whatever the highest bidder pays, and then pay a percentage of that to Ebay for services rendered" (10% IIRC). That is: I would get $315 and eBay $35, but instead what happened is that I get $270 and eBay $80. Note that it DIDN'T list a "higher price for the buyer"; people were bidding so that price was correct. What it did was list a LOWER price to the seller. This is like…

Are you in a state with sales tax? eBay is required by law to collect sales tax from the buyer, and it does not get passed on to you (nor does it go to eBay, it goes to the state taxing authority). As you are currently describing the issue, it makes absolutely no sense otherwise.

Tax was being collected, on top of the $350 being told to the buyer.

Ebay told me $300 for the completion of the auction. There was the normal fees associated with listing, which again, are understood.

This $50 discrepancy was not accountable anywhere. It just went poof into Ebay's gaping maw.

Like I said, we both compared notes and what our respective screens said. The numbers absolutely did not add up. And Ebay reallllly doesnt want the buyer and seller to talk directly. It's why the "ebay mail" is so limited and crippled, to prevent actual conversations like this from taking place.

I talked with them over text and email proper. There was no filter, or daddy ebay censoring all my messages.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's an official representitive of the comapny he is the authorisation - we're not talking about the janitor here, we're talking about people with fiduciary responsibility between themselves and the company. A lone wolf acting alone and falsifying documents is entirely different to a direct representative who is authorised to act on behalf of a company acting in bad faith. Otherwise company officials are free to d…

So your answer is that the guy in the mansion whose cook gets into a fight should be punished for personally breaking the other guy's leg?

Nope.

At this point I'm merely questioning your ability to parse and undertand English in good faith.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There will be no site that does not offer advertising, because advertising allows the site to determine which sellers can afford to pay more while still being profitable. It's still possible that people exist who charge "what it's worth" rather than "what they can get". Those people can still make a fine living off of a two sided market place through flat transaction fees. Craigslist is an example that comes immedia…

Craigslist is a hell hole. I stopped selling there because even when I was practically giving electronics away (to prevent buyer’s remorse), people still emailed insultingly low offers. I just gave up on the site maybe five years ago.

I think that reflects more on your sales strategy than CL in general. If there's negotiating expectations in a market (Middle East or Craigslist) you gotta start higher to arrive at the desired "halfway point" (think Ross pricing for clothes) and you gotta ignore spam/lowballs altogether. In fact pricing things too low undermines the quality of the item you're selling perceptually and attracts lowballers disproportionately.

CL has gotten worse since FB Marketplace has gotten foothold people visit it much less. FB Marketplace on the other hand is a race to the bottom due to ease of sales by laypeople.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist exists and used to be the main go to for stuff like that. We gotta get the eyeballs back on craigslist

so many scams and fake people on Craigslist made me move to Facebook marketplace. They have better algorithms for detecting real people.

you either let a company like eBay manipulate prices or you have to put up with some of the human element of a marketplace which does include scams.

I have never once been a victim of a scam because I'm smart enough to identify them and be extremely careful when exchanging money on line.

It's not difficult.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#640
post #204
post #35

FTC should go after other industries that are far more harmful to customers than tech. ISPs, healthcare/insurance, etc. Tech should be no where near the top of concerns for the FTC. This is a political stunt. If Lena Khan and the FTC were actually interested in consumer protection, they would go after other industries first.

Big tech is no longer the disruptor. Mature big tech way too easily devolves into rent-seeking just like those other industries you listed, just with shinier tech.

Tech is still immature compared to those other industries. I believe generally the more mature an industry is, the more it moves from disruption to rent-seeking. There may be a time at some point in the future to consider breaking up tech when but right now it makes more sense to break up the more mature industries.
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