Celestial Reference Frame Department • Hacker News Board

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#21

Post by twic » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 10:47 AM UTC

jdougan wrote: post #18

Animats wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the time people. There's also the Earth Rotation Service.[1] They track what the planet is doing. The Earth Orientation Center, in Frankfurt, Germany, tracks where the poles are pointed and the rotation speed. These are the people behind leap seconds. It all comes down to 3 numbers.[2] [1] https://www.iers.org/ [2] https://www.iers.org/IERS/EN/DataProducts/tools/eop_of_today...

The International Earth Rotation Service is possibly my favorite name for an international bureaucracy. It give me visions of a Giant Control Lever extending deep into the Earth, with the labels Faster and Slower .

People say money makes the world go round. False. The International Earth Rotation Service makes the world go round.

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#22

Post by twic » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 10:50 AM UTC

mikeytown2 wrote: post #2

More information about the software they use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Observatory_Vector_Astro... Manual: https://aa.usno.navy.mil/downloads/novas/NOVAS_F3.1_Guide.pd...

> Currently, NOVAS has three different editions, for C, Fortran, and Python.

I imagine the Python versions wraps one of the other two. But are the C and Fortran versions separate, or does one wrap the other? If not, how are they related? Parallel implementations kept in sync by hand? Used to check each other? Machine translated? Code-generated from an upstream definition?

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#23

Post by twic » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 10:51 AM UTC

loondri wrote: post #20

loondri wrote: post #7

I think the way the Celestial Reference Frame Department does things might be old-fashioned. With new tech like blockchain for decentralized coordination, or machine learning algorithms that can process astronomical data more accurately and quickly, there might be better and easier ways to do celestial referencing. It might be time for a change to keep up with these new advancements.

This was a sarcasm btw

Put a quarter in your ass, because you Poe'd yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#24

Post by twic » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 10:52 AM UTC

d-z-m wrote: post #9

loondri wrote: post #7

I think the way the Celestial Reference Frame Department does things might be old-fashioned. With new tech like blockchain for decentralized coordination, or machine learning algorithms that can process astronomical data more accurately and quickly, there might be better and easier ways to do celestial referencing. It might be time for a change to keep up with these new advancements.

> With new tech like blockchain for decentralized coordination Can you elaborate on the applicability of the blockchain to CRFD's mission? They don't seem to be in the business of decentralized coordination.

Decentralisation would be better achieved with CRDTs, because that already sounds like CRFD.

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#25

Post by h2odragon » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 10:55 AM UTC

keepamovin wrote: post #16

loondri wrote: post #7

I think the way the Celestial Reference Frame Department does things might be old-fashioned. With new tech like blockchain for decentralized coordination, or machine learning algorithms that can process astronomical data more accurately and quickly, there might be better and easier ways to do celestial referencing. It might be time for a change to keep up with these new advancements.

God doesn't roll blockchain...

Are we sure?

Think that may be why "time" is such an intransigent thing to work with.

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#26

Post by RetroTechie » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 11:15 AM UTC

techdragon wrote: post #19

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are the people behind leap seconds. So they are my enemies

You have been lied to… your true enemies are the ones that continue to build monotonic systems on top of non monotonic time scales… Join us in the Temps Atomic International! TAI is the one true timescale. Computers should be using TAI and converting to UTC when humans want to see a local human time. My sincere belief is this was a bigger mistake than null, bigger than all the Y2K “we stored the year as 2 digits” stu…

> (..) but just infrequent enough almost everyone can ignore it ...

If it's only a problem for the experts, then it isn't really a problem, right?

The experts can decide for themselves how hard they work on solving self-invented problems.

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#27

Post by itronitron » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 11:17 AM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #11

loondri wrote: post #7

I think the way the Celestial Reference Frame Department does things might be old-fashioned. With new tech like blockchain for decentralized coordination, or machine learning algorithms that can process astronomical data more accurately and quickly, there might be better and easier ways to do celestial referencing. It might be time for a change to keep up with these new advancements.

You really should put in a sarcasm marker for content like this, there's no way to tell if you're serious.

Yeah, otherwise we can't know whether to laugh with or laugh at

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#28

Post by Avshalom » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 11:37 AM UTC

jdougan wrote: post #18

Animats wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the time people. There's also the Earth Rotation Service.[1] They track what the planet is doing. The Earth Orientation Center, in Frankfurt, Germany, tracks where the poles are pointed and the rotation speed. These are the people behind leap seconds. It all comes down to 3 numbers.[2] [1] https://www.iers.org/ [2] https://www.iers.org/IERS/EN/DataProducts/tools/eop_of_today...

The International Earth Rotation Service is possibly my favorite name for an international bureaucracy. It give me visions of a Giant Control Lever extending deep into the Earth, with the labels Faster and Slower .

You can actually slow down or speed up the planet's rotation with a big switch.

  |_ open switch, slower
  __ closed switch faster

You can also do it yourself by standing up or laying down

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#29

Post by kortilla » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 11:51 AM UTC

techdragon wrote: post #19

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are the people behind leap seconds. So they are my enemies

You have been lied to… your true enemies are the ones that continue to build monotonic systems on top of non monotonic time scales… Join us in the Temps Atomic International! TAI is the one true timescale. Computers should be using TAI and converting to UTC when humans want to see a local human time. My sincere belief is this was a bigger mistake than null, bigger than all the Y2K “we stored the year as 2 digits” stu…

The GPS-only clock source entered the room… I.e. most aircraft, spacecraft, electrical infrastructure, cell towers, etc. Welcome straight back to “what do we do with the leap second?” hell.

Unfortunately none of the interfaces between parties agree on TAI. It’s stupid GPS time or UTC.

Re: Celestial Reference Frame Department

#30

Post by t8sr » Thu, Oct 05, 2023, 11:54 AM UTC

RetroTechie wrote: post #26

techdragon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have been lied to… your true enemies are the ones that continue to build monotonic systems on top of non monotonic time scales… Join us in the Temps Atomic International! TAI is the one true timescale. Computers should be using TAI and converting to UTC when humans want to see a local human time. My sincere belief is this was a bigger mistake than null, bigger than all the Y2K “we stored the year as 2 digits” stu…

> (..) but just infrequent enough almost everyone can ignore it ... If it's only a problem for the experts, then it isn't really a problem, right? The experts can decide for themselves how hard they work on solving self-invented problems.

Huh? Ok, so what do you propose: should time keeping diverge from the day-night cycle, or should we have leap seconds? There is no third option - the Earth just doesn’t turn the way you want it to.

It becomes your problem in a hurry once you encounter a 61-second minute and your stuff all breaks.