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Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

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Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#31

Post by boomboomsubban »

loganc2342 wrote: post #18

> The Pythagorean Theorem is arguably the most famous statement in mathematics, and the fourth most beautiful equation. Just out of curiosity, which equations are considered the top three “most beautiful?”

This seems to be the original source https://physicsworld.com/a/the-greatest-equations-ever/ but it doesn't actually rank the equations. The other source commenting on that does, but only the sample is available on Google Scholar. From that, first is Euler's identity, second is Maxwell's four electromagnetic field equations, and third isn't in the sample. The NYT article also commenting on it https://archive.ph/H7ujx suggests the theory of relativity, F=ma, or amusingly 1+1=2.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#32

Post by [deleted] »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #25
loganc2342 wrote: post #18

> The Pythagorean Theorem is arguably the most famous statement in mathematics, and the fourth most beautiful equation. Just out of curiosity, which equations are considered the top three “most beautiful?”

Ask ten people you will get ten different answers.

[deleted]

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#33

Post by fsckboy »

hyperthesis wrote: post #28
fsckboy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pythagorean triples to measure right angles ... But that's not a theorem, just an observation. It becomes a theorem when you prove (i.e. explain why) this relationship always holds, based on more evident things. The Babylonian tablet mentioned in the article doesn't seem to do anything like that according to the article, this Babylonian tablet does come closer to theorem than you are suggesting. They weren't using…

Agree it's closer but still an instance.

depends on the method they used to come up with the formula. It's not obvious that the sum of a "more complicated than you can do in your head" series of fractions would be either the square root of two or the the diagonal of a square, let alone both. This is a fragment of a single clay tablet. If they had a systematic method of coming up with this convergent series, there might have been a stack of tablets showing square root of three, five, etc. It seems pretty highly suggestive to me.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#34

Post by fasquoika »

loganc2342 wrote: post #18

> The Pythagorean Theorem is arguably the most famous statement in mathematics, and the fourth most beautiful equation. Just out of curiosity, which equations are considered the top three “most beautiful?”

Well you're on a website called ycombinator.com so maybe the fixed point combinator

    Y = λf.(λx.f(xx))(λx.f(xx))
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_combinator

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#35

Post by geraneum »

saithound wrote: post #26
geraneum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Pythagoras is immortally linked to the discovery and proof of a theorem that bears his name – even though there is no evidence of his discovering and/or proving the theorem. Simply quoting. It seems like > Greek definitely did is not a universally held belief.

Your quote from the article does not suggest what you seem to think it suggests. The Greeks definitely were able to prove the Pythagorean theorem, and the Greeks definitely though Pythagoras specifically knew how to prove it: e.g. Proclus II states this in writing explicitly, as does Euclid 300 years later, and numerous ancient sources inbetween. It would be hard for this not to be the consensus. We can't know if Pyt…

You are actually right. You didn’t claim that the Greek did it first and that is what I doubted in the first place. I misread your comment.

That fact that the Greek could prove the theorem at some point is not unlikely even without evidence. It’s as likely as others doing it well before them.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#36

Post by outrun86 »

saithound wrote: post #27
sn41 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proofs are of course the gold standard. But even if others discovered the rule, their contribution should not be held to be trivial. A modern analogy: today, people are very happy to use LLMs and Transformers without anyone "proving" that they work. Right now, philosophically, they are at the level of empirical observations (perhaps not even that). Does that mean that today's AI researchers should get no credit when…

Yes, when people in the 4000s write clickbait holonet articles about how the Master Theorem of Neural Network Scaling was not actually invented by the Muskovites of Mars, but was found written on an Ancient American tablet containing the works of Hoffmann et al., I hope somebody will offer substantial corrections. That's not in any sense a value judgment of the empirical work done at DeepMind. Nor does it stop anybod…

Found on an ancient tablet as the work of Schmidhuber et al. but ok

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#38

Post by freework »

I've seen this tablet before, and an not convinced that it is actually the Pythagorean theorem. Its just a tablet with some tick marks inscribed onto it, along with a circular looking thing. It's very much a stretch to say the person who etched those markings intended to express the Pythagorean theorem.

There was a point in time when I was very interested in ancient civilizations from Mesopotamia, but in more recent years I an way less interested in it. The scholarship in that field is just terrible. In my opinion, a lot of the stuff is on par with alien "investigators" and stuff like that, yet for some reason the general public sees the field as totally legit.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#39

Post by somenameforme »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #10

Pythagoras was specifically known for accumulating the wisdom of diverse cultures—supposedly he met Thales, was initiated as Egyptian priest in Hermopolis, spent time in Babylon after being captured, and was initiated into every mystery cult he could. And as a boy on his home island of Samos, he would have been exposed to the building of the largest stone temple in Ancient Greece (to Hera) and the incredible engineer…

Oh how can you skip the most fun tale of them all. [1] Its authenticity is dubious, but there's probably at least parts of truth in it. In a nutshell, Pythagoras started a cult based around numbers, and the pseudo-divine purity of rational numbers - of which everything can be represented.

Hippasus, a member of said cult, however managed to compellingly demonstrate that the square root of 2 could not be a rational number. Pythagorus tried to swear him to silence. When that did no twork, he had him killed. Over the square root of 2.

[1] - https://sciencefocus.ust.hk/the-square-root-of-two-at-the-co...

Re: Pythagorean Theorem found on clay tablet 1k years older than Pythagoras (2009)

#40

Post by Tao3300 »

loganc2342 wrote: post #18

> The Pythagorean Theorem is arguably the most famous statement in mathematics, and the fourth most beautiful equation. Just out of curiosity, which equations are considered the top three “most beautiful?”

A = Pe^(rt)
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