Anyone out there done a deep dive into this one? What's the catch?
for reference, we posted our beta benchmark stuff here and people had a good look at us: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3227905
Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
11–20 of 46 posts
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#12Anyone out there done a deep dive into this one? What's the catch?
This seems like a non-starter to me: The Fabric Engine core and language bindings are made available as open source under the AGPL v3 license, with commercial licensing options available on request and paid-for support options for developers. Version 1.0 is available to download from the company's site. Personally, I'd say "screw it", and use V8.
AGPL is a bit bothersome. I'd rather be able to release my code under a non-viral license.
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The engine works by allowing developers to use special interfaces and a high-performance scripting language called KL for performance critical parts of the code I haven't looked into it, but this suggests it's not actually JavaScript (as the title implies) but rather some new language that gets the speed boost.
So its like a cython for javascript?
not really - Fabric is integrated with dynamic languages, we 're not interpreting JS or Python (we work with both languages). Fabric is basically a high-performance threading engine that you can call from your dynamic language - the key element is that the operator code (KL) enables the high-performance. This KL is only required for the operators, and is not as difficult or complex as C/C++ to use - it's designed purely for this task. A regular Python or JavaScript developer can pick it up.
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems like a non-starter to me: The Fabric Engine core and language bindings are made available as open source under the AGPL v3 license, with commercial licensing options available on request and paid-for support options for developers. Version 1.0 is available to download from the company's site. Personally, I'd say "screw it", and use V8.
AGPL is a bit bothersome. I'd rather be able to release my code under a non-viral license.
we offer commercial licensing that allows devs to bypass the AGPL requirements. I'll update the site info soon to show the subscription pricing options.
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#15This isn't JavaScript being as fast as C++, it's writing critical sections in a low-level language being as good as writing the whole app in a low-level language.
agreed - I was pulled up on this here last year when we published our benchmarks :) The other thing to remember is the low-level language we use sets a lower bar to entry than say C - the benefit of designing for a specific set of goals (ease of use, performance and security). That said, if you're familiar with C or JavaScript, then KL will be very familiar.
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#16This isn't JavaScript being as fast as C++, it's writing critical sections in a low-level language being as good as writing the whole app in a low-level language.
If this is well designed, I see this as very useful. If the barrier is lower than callouts to a C library or using cython, and if it's designed in a way to make it easier to write correct critical section code, then this encourages the "right" way to program. (Where right is any area of development where building quickly in a high level language, then optimizing later is one of the better ways to go.)
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#17 Fabric Engine has released version 1.0 of its platform for multi-threaded optimised execution of scripting languages.
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#18Fabric Engine has released version 1.0 of its platform for multi-threaded optimised execution of scripting languages. Kind of cool, if somewhat misleading. The way that's written seems to imply it speeds up the scripting language itself, but reading further it seems to just be a lower level language that's easy to use from within those scripting languages. Using an FFI to speed things up is nothing new, but making it…
The 'new' part relates to using LLVM to do the compilation on target - this actually makes a big difference in workflow, and is also much more familiar to people used to developing with dynamic languages. It also opens up some cool possibilities around scaling of computation...
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#19Fabric Engine has released version 1.0 of its platform for multi-threaded optimised execution of scripting languages. Kind of cool, if somewhat misleading. The way that's written seems to imply it speeds up the scripting language itself, but reading further it seems to just be a lower level language that's easy to use from within those scripting languages. Using an FFI to speed things up is nothing new, but making it…
p.s. I meant to say - yes, it is misleading. We are most definitely not an automagical interpreter :)
Re: Fabric Engine: JavaScript as fast as C++
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
So its like a cython for javascript?
not really - Fabric is integrated with dynamic languages, we 're not interpreting JS or Python (we work with both languages). Fabric is basically a high-performance threading engine that you can call from your dynamic language - the key element is that the operator code (KL) enables the high-performance. This KL is only required for the operators, and is not as difficult or complex as C/C++ to use - it's designed pur…
I think you've just described cython. A higher-than-c level language that trivially binds to the higher target language.