91–100 of 101 posts
My child doesn't see the point of high school, and I strongly fear for their future. Of course there's history, and a lot of psychological damage done by said institution... so that might have something to do with it. High school is an extremely cruel place.
I think they're not showing up because they don't want to be in school. And I think that's because school isn't a healthy place for teenagers. I don't think teenagers should be spending their entire day in a government administered environment, and they seem to feel the same way.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, hypothetically. It's just not what I'm seeing the wealthy parents in the town I grew up in doing. Most of them are fighting for school vouchers so they can divert money from public schools into their private schools.
Continuing to poor money into a system that isn't working isn't a solution to the problem. School vouchers offer the potential to poor that money into a system that is working instead. Maybe that richer parent is trying to help not hinder other parents. Public schools appear to be fundamentally broken in many communities. More money won't fix that brokenness. Firing a bunch of teachers and administrators might work b…
There is already a live experiment where education unions are totally neutered, and it didn't fix anything. Private schools "work" because they get to expel anyone who doesn't pay enough money to outbalance any problems they cause. Public schools obviously cannot do this.
Peak COVID with everyone working and schooling from home. If you don't put them on a bus and put them around other kids of course they're going to fuck off and do other stuff.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Continuing to poor money into a system that isn't working isn't a solution to the problem. School vouchers offer the potential to poor that money into a system that is working instead. Maybe that richer parent is trying to help not hinder other parents. Public schools appear to be fundamentally broken in many communities. More money won't fix that brokenness. Firing a bunch of teachers and administrators might work b…
I say this every time that education unions are blamed, but there are many states which do not allow teachers to collectively bargain in any way, thereby completely defanging the "unions" which exist in those states, and yet students in those states have lower test scores and educational outcomes on average. There is already a live experiment where education unions are totally neutered, and it didn't fix anything. Pr…
Private schools "work" because they get to expel anyone who doesn't pay enough money to outbalance any problems they cause. Public schools obviously cannot do this.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I say this every time that education unions are blamed, but there are many states which do not allow teachers to collectively bargain in any way, thereby completely defanging the "unions" which exist in those states, and yet students in those states have lower test scores and educational outcomes on average. There is already a live experiment where education unions are totally neutered, and it didn't fix anything. Pr…
I did not only blame the unions for the current state of things. I merely stated that they stand in the way of one of the potential solutions to the current problem. I don't find the debate of whether there is a hypothetical world where giving them more power would help the state of our schools particularly interesting or compelling. Private schools "work" because they get to expel anyone who doesn't pay enough money…
Because the main purpose of the public school system isn't to provide the best education for the most capable, it's to provide an acceptable education for the average student to eventually work a basic labor job, to provide daycare for working class parents, and to keep teenagers mostly busy so that they commit less crimes.
Expelling every problem student would totally fail at these goals, and would create an underclass of problem teenagers who have mostly nothing to do but commit crimes and get eachother pregnant. This would be a massive failure and much more expensive than public school. It would worsen the lives of the millions who would have otherwise grown out of these negative tendencies.
Further, it's not the only secret to private schools success, only one reason. Other reasons are costing money and therefore disqualifying poor people, parents who pay money for their children's school are more likely to be invested and involved in their child's education, and private school teachers are paid much more money than public school teachers. All of these factors contribute. I just listed a one, since the only reason you listed was unions.
A more interesting comparison is between public schools and charter schools which are not allowed to use selective admissions (must admit by lottery etc.), which is much closer to the public school system. My understanding is that they do a little bit better on average at the cost of more outliers. And even they avoid the most checked-out parents who couldn't be bothered or are actively hostile to filling a free application for a school.
Oh - and you said you didn't only blame unions, but the only other targets in your post are teachers and administrators, which private schools also have. Can you expand on this?
I'll state upfront that I'm politically right of center, but nothing crazy. I'm live and let live. I probably would have been considered a moderate 20 years ago.
Public schools have been on a downward trajectory my entire adult life (I'm 52). Most of the parents I know have been alarmed at the trend for a while (decades), but as progressive ideology has taken hold over most of our public institutions, the parents I know feel that their concerns and talking points are usually dismissed offhand. Maybe they feel ignored because they're "priveleged" and other more diverse voices need to be heard, or maybe it's because their "conservative values" are simply seen as part of the problem. I don't know. My point is that there are a lot of people who feel ignored and are tired of this.
As a result, I've noticed that slowly, over the last twenty years or so, those that can have been pulling their kids (and themselves) "out" of the public system. We personally homeschooled our kids until 6th grade, then they went to public school. Many in my circle disagreed at the time with our decision to homeschool, but in time have come around as public schools continue to deteriorate.
Those that can afford it (or are willing to sacrifice time/energy/$$$ in order to afford it) have been putting their kids in private school, where they have more say with an administration that's willing to engage the parents that are directly paying for the schooling.
Point being is that more and more people don't feel the public system is meeting their children's needs, are tired of trying to engage the system while getting nowhere, and so have taken matters into their own hands. As parents find public schools administrations continuing to double down on ideas and ideologies that run counter to their own values, many are now more than willing to pull their kids out and go their own way.
These are parents that are deeply concerned for their kids, and are putting a lot of time/money/energy to give their kids a better chance at success in an increasingly confusing and uncertain world.
As parents with initiative pull their kids out of the public system, schools face an increasing percentage of kids from families that are not as committed/concerned/willing to getting involved in their children's education. This is creating a negative feedback loop. Less parental involvement means the bar is lowered for the performance of the average kid in public school. Worse, it also means less parental pushback on the administration, and so public schools continue to double down on failing strategies, all while patting themselves on the back for being so progressive. It leads to a monoculture, where everyone believes they're doing the right thing, so it can't be their fault, the problem must lie elsewhere. It's a big experiment on our kids, the impact of which is accelerating.
The fact is that people are slowly checking out of the institutions we've built, hedging their bets against the future we're being forced into so to speak. Unfortunately this means that we're somewhat bi-furcating the future generation we're in the process of educating. Kids whose parents are involved will work to see their kids get a better education than what public school offers, and should therefore have a better than average chance of success at life. The kids that remain in the system continue to suffer as those with means/ability abandon it. It's not a pretty picture, but this is what things look like when our state institutions start failing us.
It's slowly becoming "every-man-for-themselves". People don't want to engage, they want to argue, to blame, to point fingers, and cover their own ass. Few are concerned about the public good, they'd rather just feel good. So, those that can have given up trying to fix things, and are going their own way. The schools may be failing our kids, but as parents we can still help them.
I don't think what's happening can be stopped at this point. I'm concerned that the rot has taken too deep of a hold at all levels of local and state administration, and academia. It's probably going to get much more dire before things bottom out and start getting better.
Probably has something to do with, or is a symptom of, the coming "Fourth Turning" etc.
The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. The response has been further dehumanization. The older generations who don't have school-age children have been continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes. The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education, actively harming the children in their community. I don't blame…
Thye probably just don't want to be there.
>The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel.
Exactly more than ever.
>draining education in order to have lower property taxes.
Not exactly this. There is no lower property taxes. They are trying, not very successfully, to keep property taxes from increasing as exorbitantly as they would otherwise.