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"You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

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Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#121

Post by slaymaker1907 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #4
gustavus wrote: post #3

AI Detection services are the oiliest of snake oils. Seems like education is going to need to change drastically in the next few years. Maybe we'll go all the way back to oral examinations again.

I doubt oral examinations come back in general. The undergrad model relys on massive classes, I don’t see how you can do oral exams in those 300 person classes without massive cheating as the first students tell everyone else what to expect.

You're right about oral examinations, but written _proctored_ exams would also solve a lot of these problems, particularly if you require it to be handwritten. Having take home essays be handwritten would also help deter using AI by making it much more inconvenient to use compared to just doing the assignment in the first place.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#122

Post by jncfhnb »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #107
Miraste wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if they cheat they are only cheating themselves anyways. I've heard people say this a lot. It's a very old-school liberal arts perspective that doesn't fit with the modern world. In practice, for most students, education is a third-place benefit of university behind 1. the certificate and 2. networking.

I find the “liberal arts” thing weird. First, as a scientist with an engineering degree, I definitely feel if you cheat through school you’re only cheating yourself. In the hard sciences a lack of knowledge and ability is pretty easy to suss out. The degree gets you the interview, the network might open a door or two, but the education is how you get the job. And once you’ve got it, if you didn’t learn anything, you…

I’m just glad people have stopped saying liberal arts students are the only ones who have learned to think critically

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#123

Post by davidkuennen »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #120
wccrawford wrote: post #16

When I was in college, they were going to put carpet in the science labs, and a few of us thought it was a really stupid, dangerous idea. We started a petition and asked for signatures at the on-campus cafe. After a few days, the administrators asked us into their office for a chat. They asked us stupid questions and tried to talk us out of our petition. When it didn't work, they eventually caved and didn't do the ca…

Why were they so intent on carpet for the science labs? I mean, why change the flooring type at all?

I really want to know as well.

Why was the carpet so important to them?

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#124

Post by kirykl »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #120
wccrawford wrote: post #16

When I was in college, they were going to put carpet in the science labs, and a few of us thought it was a really stupid, dangerous idea. We started a petition and asked for signatures at the on-campus cafe. After a few days, the administrators asked us into their office for a chat. They asked us stupid questions and tried to talk us out of our petition. When it didn't work, they eventually caved and didn't do the ca…

Why were they so intent on carpet for the science labs? I mean, why change the flooring type at all?

Budget not spent is budget lost

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#125

Post by sdfghswe »

tomjen3 wrote: post #35
sdfghswe wrote: post #6

Paradigm changes have been happening since there's been humans around. Some people adapt, others don't.

Correct, but the people who should adapt are the institutions and professors. This is not, I think, and unreasonable requirement either, we just need a few professors to be hit with large lawsuits arguing torturous interference with employment (since what most people are in college for is a better job anyway).

If such a lawsuit was successful, wouldn't all professors have the incentive to just pass everyone with top grades, lest someone decide to sue them for "interfering with employment"?

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#126

Post by Veen »

jccalhoun wrote: post #51

As a professor at a community college, I am very hesitant to just declare something is AI generated unless is it very clear. If I suspect something is AI generated I run it through 3 different checkers that I found online and if they don't all agree then I don't call it plagiarism. Normally the writing is so vague that it isn't more than a C anyway.

They don't work. If three services that don't work agree, it doesn't mean they are right. It just means whatever spurious metrics they use happen to align in that case.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#127

Post by steelframe »

jetrink wrote: post #46
linusha wrote: post #5

Has anyone field-tested strategies to fighting allegations like this and would like to share them? Something I remember from a previous discussion around this topic was writing everything in e.g., Google Docs, where there are captured versions every few seconds. The idea being that the version log shows that one did not copy-and-paste larger chunks of the text.

I bet students would start to print out the plagiarized essays and retype them. If the plagiarists made an effort to make minor changes and rearrange things as they went, no screen recorder or edit history could distinguish it from normal essay writing.

I believe you just described the typical student paper writing process relatively accurately.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#128

Post by slaymaker1907 »

bluGill wrote: post #62
specproc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming this is America? 300 person classes is insane, particular how much debt's involved. I've studied in the UK and EU, and I don't think I've ever been in a class larger than 40.

One someone is standing in front of the room talking it doesn't really matter if there is one person in the room or 1 billion. sure you need a PA system and other technology to support a large crowd, but otherwise it doesn't matter. Most students would prefer to be in a large room with someone who is a great speaker vs a small room with less. If you do have questions - that is what the TA is for and you get to see th…

That's only true of lecture and your hypothesis about answering all potential questions is out of whack with how humans actually learn. Someone asking a question might just be a matter of not hearing something repeated enough times or maybe they just need to hear it phrased in a different way. Even with large classes, there are usually a bunch of TAs to try and provide more one-on-one help and often labs that exist solely to encourage questions to the TAs and reinforce material in a smaller setting.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#129

Post by paulddraper »

natdempk wrote: post #70
jccalhoun wrote: post #51

As a professor at a community college, I am very hesitant to just declare something is AI generated unless is it very clear. If I suspect something is AI generated I run it through 3 different checkers that I found online and if they don't all agree then I don't call it plagiarism. Normally the writing is so vague that it isn't more than a C anyway.

You shouldn’t be using AI detectors. They aren’t accurate and other approaches to teaching need to be used instead of leaning on old methods: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8313351-how-can-educator...

What are those "other approaches".

Just in-person exams, right?

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#130

Post by paulddraper »

_yb2s wrote: post #8

I would sue the teacher and school if this happened to me… total BS. Also plagarism and having other people do your work, or even take exams for you is as old as time. How is AI any different? Some trust is in order here. The students are the ones paying to be educated, if they cheat they are only cheating themselves anyways.

You're going to lose your lawsuit.

A school can assign whatever score they want to an assignment, just as you can leave whatever review you want to a product.

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