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"You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

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Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#91

Post by _yb2s »

LanceH wrote: post #83
taylodl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a waste of your time and your money. When you consult with your lawyer they're going to point out the Code of Student Conduct you agreed to that stipulates how automated tools are being used to detect plagiarism - tools that have been in place and in use for over ten years at this point. If anything, the new generation of AI tools should reduce the false positives. As another commenter here noted, even humans…

I'm skeptical. It might not make sense financially, but falsely accusing someone of something that wasn't done isn't absolved by using automated tools. It still requires a person to interpret the results and assess a penalty. Does the Code of Student Conduct say that plagiarism is bad? Or does it say that some secret program will assess the paper and be the sole judge of plagiarism? I'm guessing it's not the latter.…

This is the answer... it is a matter of principle, and is worth a fight, on principle. If they can do it to you, they will do it to somebody else that might not have the ability to stop them that you do.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#92

Post by jancsika »

garciasn wrote: post #9

I am an Eagle Scout and was awarded it in 1995. As part of that process, I had to write up a detailed document outlining my project including how it was conceived, the work, and the outcome. It was rejected on my initial submission because the reviewers felt I it wasn’t written by a sophomore in HS. My parents rewrote the entire thing in what they described as “baby talk” and it was then accepted. The irony is not lo…

> This is nothing new; it’s been happening forever and will continue to happen, we just have a new reason to drive a race to the bottom.

The joke about the pinewood derby was that you could always tell the one kid who actually built his own car (which was the whole point, after all). Because every other car had been carefully engineered, carved, machined, sanded, painted, lacquered, and weighted by a dad.

Sounds like you had the honor of being in the only scout troupe that at least tried to keep this kind of thing from happening. And your singular false positive seems to have somehow projected itself onto the world.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#93

Post by brucethemoose2 »

wfvr wrote: post #76
brucethemoose2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a voiced AI chatbot to handle the simpler questions? Fight fire with fire.

An AI could generate relevant questions, follow-up questions during the oral, and evaluate the student at the end. The teacher could then review the whole conversarion at a glance and check/adjust the AI evaluation, which shouldn't take more time than grading an exam and be equally scalable. I've actually tested this with a VR app (with support for mobile also), and it actually works quite well.

> An AI could generate relevant questions, follow-up questions during the oral, and evaluate the student at the end.

I dunno about that level of automation. Maybe the proctors can use it to generate a big bag of questions beforehand, that they manually review, but generating them on the fly is just asking for trouble.

Administering the preset questions and responding to the student is a much better fit.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#94

Post by CitrusFruits »

Animats wrote: post #72

The message from the teacher looks like it was written by a bot. Compare notes with other students. If two students got exactly the same text, the teacher is outsourcing their own job to a program. Publicize that.

I don't think retaliation is going to benefit anyone here. If they wanted to be confrontational, I think a constructive approach where they have a conversation with the teacher about false positives in these tools would be better.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#95

Post by HDThoreaun »

btilly wrote: post #43
HDThoreaun wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with different exams for each students is that it’s next to impossible to make them equally difficult which ruins the curve.

The suggestion was personalized, not different. ChatGPT could have the exact same set of questions to ask. All students are independently taking the same exam at the same time, responding conversationally. ChatGPT asks all of them the same question, and then probes based on weaknesses in the responses. Grades the answer to that question, then moves on to the next. Everyone got equal questions. Is there going to be in…

Ah yea I could see something like that propping up

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#96

Post by HDThoreaun »

specproc wrote: post #27
HDThoreaun wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt oral examinations come back in general. The undergrad model relys on massive classes, I don’t see how you can do oral exams in those 300 person classes without massive cheating as the first students tell everyone else what to expect.

I'm assuming this is America? 300 person classes is insane, particular how much debt's involved. I've studied in the UK and EU, and I don't think I've ever been in a class larger than 40.

I went to a top 15 cs department and every single undergrad cs class except the senior project had 150+ people. They also had discussion sections though but usually there were 2 TAs running all the discussions so I don’t think enough to run oral exams.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#97

Post by KeplerBoy »

specproc wrote: post #27
HDThoreaun wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt oral examinations come back in general. The undergrad model relys on massive classes, I don’t see how you can do oral exams in those 300 person classes without massive cheating as the first students tell everyone else what to expect.

I'm assuming this is America? 300 person classes is insane, particular how much debt's involved. I've studied in the UK and EU, and I don't think I've ever been in a class larger than 40.

Lectures absolutely are attended by 200-300 students at a time in parts of the EU.

The professor hate teaching those classes, students hate attending them and as a result half the people will drop out before they get to experience the real classes.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#98

Post by dheera »

gustavus wrote: post #3

AI Detection services are the oiliest of snake oils. Seems like education is going to need to change drastically in the next few years. Maybe we'll go all the way back to oral examinations again.

The entire idea of "spit out knowledge in 1 hour without references" is such a terrible test of one's capability in the real world that it should not be done at all.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#99

Post by freitzkriesler2 »

Comical. Back in the day, when I had to write research papers I would go to Wikipedia by copying the citations verbatim, outline the page, and then essentially rewrite the whole thing in my voice but keeping the exact quotes from the original article since they were cited.

At that point, 70% of the hard work is done and you're just regurgitating. Liberal arts is long dead.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#100

Post by godelski »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #29
taylodl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not handled at the troop level. The Eagle review is at district and council level. It's common for candidates to receive "assistance" to help along the process and the review boards are on the lookout for that.

Sorry, I should have used the correct org terms. But, as the parent of an Eagle scout, I think my point still stands. Either they can, or can't, trust the Eagle to be honest. IMHO, that trust should be a necessary condition for awarding Eagle. And if the council isn't capable of making that call, then they're perhaps unqualified for deciding whether or not to award Eagle rank. (I realize my position is a bit simplist…

> Either they can, or can't, trust the Eagle to be honest.

A scout is _____

(∩ ⌣̀_⌣́)

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