Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

fossforce.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 99 posts

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#71

Post by dehrmann »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #61
0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

> " He screamed at people for using 'open source'... " RMS has been literally all about Free Software from day one. The term "open source" originated as a competing philosophy from Bruce Perens. It's like going to the CEO of Coca-cola and asking about Pepsi. RMS was also a fringy fanatic from day one. It took a lot of willpower and vision to advocate for Free Software, a movement that that flew in the face of the ove…

In the South, "coke" is a generic term for soft drinks. Supposedly ordering "Pepsi coke" is a thing.

He can scream all he wants, but it's not a productive conversation.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#72

Post by dehrmann »

0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

My theory is he's bitter that Hurd failed and GNU took a back seat to Linux.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#73

Post by dehrmann »

Boogie_Man wrote: post #15

Very sad to hear that a crucial, visionary figure in FOSS has cancer. The loss of his "Lion's Mane" is shocking to see in an image in the article. Prayers and best wishes to Stallman.

For a sec I was like "Is that Knuth?"

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#74

Post by tekla »

dehrmann wrote: post #71
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " He screamed at people for using 'open source'... " RMS has been literally all about Free Software from day one. The term "open source" originated as a competing philosophy from Bruce Perens. It's like going to the CEO of Coca-cola and asking about Pepsi. RMS was also a fringy fanatic from day one. It took a lot of willpower and vision to advocate for Free Software, a movement that that flew in the face of the ove…

In the South, "coke" is a generic term for soft drinks. Supposedly ordering "Pepsi coke" is a thing. He can scream all he wants, but it's not a productive conversation.

They are productive, because they are literally different things.

I would equally be annoyed if someone called an Apple an Orange, because they are not the same thing.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#75

Post by dehrmann »

tekla wrote: post #74
dehrmann wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the South, "coke" is a generic term for soft drinks. Supposedly ordering "Pepsi coke" is a thing. He can scream all he wants, but it's not a productive conversation.

They are productive, because they are literally different things. I would equally be annoyed if someone called an Apple an Orange, because they are not the same thing.

This feels more like a banana/plantain scenario.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#76

Post by r3856283 »

0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

I don't believe your account of this 2009 talk, most definitely do not believe your suggestion of what 100 other people thought is anywhere close to accurate.

> To those who say we need him for GNU outreach: we absolutely don't. ANYONE would be better for the job.

But other people are, and you are ignoring them and helping create this supposed problem, which I'm unconvinced is a real or important problem. LWN said that Panos Alevropoulos gave a great speech at this very same event. Why don't you write or promote an article about his talk and leave the people who want to read this article alone instead of heckling them and RMS. I've read this same complaint for many years "Everyone look: we should pay attention to someone else besides RMS for free software (as I also give attention to RMS through this comment, do not pay attention to anyone else, and do not suggest anyone or do anything to help solve this supposed problem)." RMS said things at this event people are interested in reading about, so this got upvoted, and there is nothing wrong with that, and the fact that you didn't like his attitude in 2009 is really not very interesting as a comment on this 2023 speech where he had a good attitude. Is RMS irredeemable? Should someone be primarily judged by mostly anonymous internet commenters who are not actively involved in the activity they criticize and based on things like a grumpy attitude they once saw? I don't think so.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#77

Post by Gork_1 »

eYrKEC2 wrote: post #64
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " He screamed at people for using 'open source'... " RMS has been literally all about Free Software from day one. The term "open source" originated as a competing philosophy from Bruce Perens. It's like going to the CEO of Coca-cola and asking about Pepsi. RMS was also a fringy fanatic from day one. It took a lot of willpower and vision to advocate for Free Software, a movement that that flew in the face of the ove…

Do you think the CEO of Coca-Cola actually screams at waiters when they say, "we don't have Coke, will Pepsi be ok?"

Yes.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#78

Post by 0atman »

r3856283 wrote: post #76
0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

I don't believe your account of this 2009 talk, most definitely do not believe your suggestion of what 100 other people thought is anywhere close to accurate. > To those who say we need him for GNU outreach: we absolutely don't. ANYONE would be better for the job. But other people are, and you are ignoring them and helping create this supposed problem, which I'm unconvinced is a real or important problem. LWN said th…

You don't believe me? That's an extremely weird reaction, he's on public record with this kind of behaviour, just look at most of the comments in this very thread of people saying the same thing.

You've forced me to look up the talk, and the one I have the ticket for in my email is actually from 2011, my memory of the date was wrong: https://localevents.theiet.org/register.php?event=bc7fd2

Someone took a terrible video of it (ah 2011 video) here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vazlMe7sNzM but that doesn't seem to include the Q&A section where he went off the rails.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#79

Post by 0atman »

yifanl wrote: post #68
eYrKEC2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the CEO of Coca-Cola actually screams at waiters when they say, "we don't have Coke, will Pepsi be ok?"

The founder of Coca-Cola might. But either way, pointing out the flaws of a loose analogy adds nothing to the conversation.

and we we wouldn't let that founder do PR, right?

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#80

Post by r3856283 »

0atman wrote: post #78
r3856283 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe your account of this 2009 talk, most definitely do not believe your suggestion of what 100 other people thought is anywhere close to accurate. > To those who say we need him for GNU outreach: we absolutely don't. ANYONE would be better for the job. But other people are, and you are ignoring them and helping create this supposed problem, which I'm unconvinced is a real or important problem. LWN said th…

You don't believe me? That's an extremely weird reaction, he's on public record with this kind of behaviour, just look at most of the comments in this very thread of people saying the same thing. You've forced me to look up the talk, and the one I have the ticket for in my email is actually from 2011, my memory of the date was wrong: https://localevents.theiet.org/register.php?event=bc7fd2 Someone took a terrible vid…

> You don't believe me? That's an extremely weird reaction

Really? Let me spell it out for you. You wrote:

> The 100 or so developers all left the talk in silence, mourning the loss of the hero we had imagined him to be.

That is completely not credible on its face. It was a public event. I've been to RMS speeches, seen recordings, and I estimate there was a ~0% likelihood that all the people who attended that event considered RMS a hero before the event and lost that impression through it.

Post reply on HN