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Language Models Represent Space and Time

arxiv.org

21–30 of 192 posts

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#21

The next step in the research should be ablation of these time and space neurons to see how it affects accuracy on space/time completions which would help rule out the memorization of linear probes.

It would also be reassuring if they showed that they couldn't reach similar performance when they assigned random values to the target coordinates and used non-spatial words.

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#22
post #17

A lot of HNers were so adamant that the LLMs understand absolutely nothing and that these models are just predicting the next most likely word. I think with this paper it becomes clear that the adamant denial was just human bias talking. LLMs crossed a certain line here. You would think people would be amazed or in awe or react in fear at technological break through a and they often are. The weird part for LLMs was t…

My only experience so far is with chatgpt, and I am not an expert in AI, or even just in LLMs. With those disclaimers, my interactions inform my opinion that the LLM behind chatgpt has no internal world model. It shows no understanding of basic facts and makes very silly mistakes very easily. I have my bias, like anyone else, but in the case of AI in particular, I should say that I don't think there's anything especi…

Current LLMs likely have multiple world models with varying qualities. Good prompts are required to activate suitable models for each task.

1. Did you use GPT-3.5 (free version) or GPT-4 (paid one) to form the judgment? Their performances on harder tasks differ significantly as shown in https://openai.com/research/gpt-4.

2. Have you tried adding "Please think step by step" to some harder requests? This simple phrase gets most current LLMs to perform significantly better. It's a bit like asking students to show their work, which forces them to think more clearly.

Current LLMs, without additional mechanisms, tend to be perform like a drunk or sleepy human, i.e. using mostly intuition or System-1 (as defined in "Thinking Fast and Slow"). The prompt such as "think step by step" asks it to think more in the System-2 style. (There are other techniques which get them to perform even better still.)

I think of current LLMs as a very-well-read, but often sleepy intern who needs strict instructions, feedback, and sometimes extra training if you want them to perform well.

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#24

A lot of HNers were so adamant that the LLMs understand absolutely nothing and that these models are just predicting the next most likely word. I think with this paper it becomes clear that the adamant denial was just human bias talking. LLMs crossed a certain line here. You would think people would be amazed or in awe or react in fear at technological break through a and they often are. The weird part for LLMs was t…

Indeed. I was offering examples of how you could bootstrap cognitive processes at the beginning of the year and people were just sticking their fingers in their ears. A lot of people exercise their intellectual, economic, or political freedoms by rejecting others' efforts to gain the same things.

Who is the subject in the last bit of your last sentence? More pointedly: are you claiming that OpenAI is doing LLM research to gain political freedoms?

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#25

The Twitter thread is worth looking at. Very Fascinating https://twitter.com/wesg52/status/1709551516577902782?t=3b2F...

Seconded, it's a good summary with graphs and commentary. Also nitter to avoid the login wall: https://nitter.net/wesg52/status/1709551516577902782

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#26

A lot of HNers were so adamant that the LLMs understand absolutely nothing and that these models are just predicting the next most likely word. I think with this paper it becomes clear that the adamant denial was just human bias talking. LLMs crossed a certain line here. You would think people would be amazed or in awe or react in fear at technological break through a and they often are. The weird part for LLMs was t…

Seems like the hyperbolic conclusion to make? The paper doesn't make that claim. Simple ml models can take data and find patterns, like separate red and blue, or xy coordinates. Those are a small amount of dimensions and easy to reason about.

This seems like the model found on its own another dimension to segregate data in deeper layers by generalizing and using context when learning. Its cool it can do that, but it still to me seems like drawing a best fit line just with higher dimensions.

I'm sure someone will correct me if they think I am way off.

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#27

A lot of HNers were so adamant that the LLMs understand absolutely nothing and that these models are just predicting the next most likely word. I think with this paper it becomes clear that the adamant denial was just human bias talking. LLMs crossed a certain line here. You would think people would be amazed or in awe or react in fear at technological break through a and they often are. The weird part for LLMs was t…

This is a preprint that was just uploaded to arxiv two days ago. Don't be hasty and assume that it settles any matter at all. Many such claims have been made before and many counter-claims also. There is still a lively debate on the subject and it will be some time before there is agreement. More generally, any scholarly article is a claim, and should never be read as automatically true. That's something to keep in m…

I thought it was completely obvious that if it can predict things about the world as well as it can it has some form of world model, even if inaccurate. I’m surprised that anyone would argue that a language model doesn’t model things

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#28

A lot of HNers were so adamant that the LLMs understand absolutely nothing and that these models are just predicting the next most likely word. I think with this paper it becomes clear that the adamant denial was just human bias talking. LLMs crossed a certain line here. You would think people would be amazed or in awe or react in fear at technological break through a and they often are. The weird part for LLMs was t…

It's the Chinese Room argument all over again. People hear "predicting the next token" and all they can imagine is some sort of a statistical database lookup, ignoring the fact that when you have a huge corpus of data with incredibly complex internal correlations and all that data also happens to correlate with some unknown external thing, it's almost certain that a powerful learner will end up modeling that external thing if and when doing so will cause a quantum leap in prediction performance! A model that includes the external-thing hypothesis will almost certainly be simpler, ceteris paribus, than a model that doesn't.

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#29
I bet if we were able to get better output from our brains we would see something similar, for those of us that have any spatial awareness capabilities

But we don't have the output to analyze aside from our language and assumption of shared experience

Re: Language Models Represent Space and Time

#30
One thing that is clouding this discussion is that most people are mixing up a lot of different characteristics that animals like humans have as if they were all the same thing.

So for many people they don't really distinguish between things like "reasoning", "self-aware", "conscious", "alive", "sentient", "intelligent", "has world model". They also don't distinguish between different types or varying levels of cognitive abilities.

It seems clear that high functioning LLMs must have some type of world model. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily exactly the same type of highly grounded model that a human would have, especially if it was trained on only text. It might be less rich or different but still quite useful.

Another example, LLMs clearly don't have the same type of fast adaptation in a realtime 3d environment that animals have. (That's not to say that they can't mimic it in some rough ways).

But if you don't really break all of this stuff down carefully in your head then it can be hard to accept that LLMs are doing anything interesting. Because in that worldview, it's all the same thing, so they have to give the LLM all of the other characteristics at the same time.

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