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The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

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Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#151

Post by fortran77 »

proamdev123 wrote: post #92
fortran77 wrote: post #7

Good! Though, to be fair, the switching cost for a consumer to start using Target.com (for example) isn't that high. I go to vendors like Target.Com, HomeDepot.Com, BestBuy.com and AliExpress.com for most of the things I used to use Amazon for.

Thanks for the list of alternatives! Have you experienced any unexpected pros and/or cons from using those vendors instead of Amazon?

Sometimes things take a few days longer, but no real problems. Target and HomeDepot also both allow "third party sellers" so there's the same clutter issue, though it's not nearly as bad as Amazon.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#152

Post by endisneigh »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #141
endisneigh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most disagrees with you here, including those who makes the laws and the courts. Downvotes don't mean anything. Most of the folks on here have no idea how e-commerce works. Amazon will win. It's simple to see - them losing would imply they are obligated to feature higher prices, which is clearly worse for customers and inherently at odds with what the FTC is supposedly trying to accomplish.

To be clear, you disagree because you fundamentally don't understand what's going on. I'll explain it to you. A company makes a product - it costs $10 per unit to make. To list and sell with Amazon, they are charged $12 per unit. To make a profit the company adds and additional $1 per unit. They sell the product on Amazon for $23 per unit. Online retailer Foo also has a store, and provide the same services that Amazo…

I do understand, but what you're describing is bad for Amazon's customers, as you note yourself.

Furthermore, again, no one is obligated to sell with Amazon. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of sellers who do not sell their stuff on Amazon. It's not some requirement to do business in the 21st century.

In any case, we can come back to this case a year from now, and we can pretend to be shocked when nothing meaningful happens to Amazon.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#153

Post by xgl5k »

fallingknife wrote: post #142
seatac76 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech is omnipresent, is flush with cash that it frequently uses to disrupt (drive existing businesses out and then monopolize) and has an outsize influence on people. It absolutely should be first on the list for anti trust action. and it’s Lina Khan.

The only actual monopoly in the tech industry is Google search. There is also a very concerning duopoly with Google / Apple app stores controlling all software loaded on mobile OS that needs to be forced to allow alternate channels. Besides that, I can't think of anything in tech that is actually a concerning monopoly. Amazon has no such monopoly position in e-commerce. The market share really isn't that big.

Even with Google search being so dominant, there are alternatives like DuckDuckGo, Bing, Yahoo. Many people are also starting to use ChatGPT as an alternative to some of the things they used search engines for.

On Android you can sideload apps, install alternate app stores.

Implying these companies are monopolies is an overstatement.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#154

Post by EGreg »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #120
EGreg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real solution is an open source Amazon. What happened to Magento? Does it have any traction? Why sell on Amazon instead of your own site? Can’t competitors to FBA spring up that have great logistics? Are there any? Can anyone link me to them?

You don’t just “spring” up to owning a nationwide network of distribution centers and 1M+ employees. It takes decades of work.

That's the thing people don't get about making competitors to Facebook, Twitter, and other centralized platforms as well.

You don't need to boil the ocean in order to serve a single community. For example, Facebook started in Harvard and its value to everyone in Harvard was based on how many people in Harvard used it, not how many people in the world used it.

Similarly, if a single product vendor and their customers form a community, then a free market of fulfillment companies can spring up to stock that specific product, and then partner with the delivery companies (who have their own networks) to deliver the package. You might say that the delivery infrastructure is a cartel, but they're open to everyone and Amazon has been relying on them until finally spinning out their own. Same goes for CPU chips that Apple relies on etc.

Look at IPFS for example, competing with AWS for storage. It is growing every year and now powers 1% of all storage worldwide! And there is a free market.

Whereas these platforms are all centrally controlled by some billionaire (Zuck, Musk, Bezos) and his crew. You don't need to have their scale because you don't need to serve ALL COMMUNITIES IN THE WORLD on day one. If you have an open source software like Wordpress or Magento, you can serve your customers with web hosting instead of Shopify or Amazon. Now the only question is, who would do fulfilment.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#155

Post by wing-_-nuts »

dantheman wrote: post #116

Lina Kahn is the worst type of politically motivated bureaucrat. Instead of executing the law, seeks new interpretations so that she impose her world view on others. She's never created or done anything of value other than be a student or a bureaucrat. Hopefully this case will be another in her long list of failures.

I think US anti-trust law has been far too toothless for far too long. I wish we had some politicians from the 1920-30's that would actually go after big companies instead of taking bribes. Did I say bribes? Sorry I meant campaign contributions.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#156

Post by EliRivers »

endisneigh wrote: post #27
mjsweet wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, it’s not that simple. Sellers need the sheer volume of Amazon to compete. There is also the risk of Amazon duplicating their product and continuing to sell it on their platform… or their competitors filling the void.

So what? That's how e-commerce works. Why should Amazon be obligated to fill their store with higher priced items compared to their competitors? No one is going to visit a store where every item could be purchased cheaper somewhere else. This is exactly why price match is a thing, because they don't want their costumers soliciting different stores to begin with. The move that Amazon's price be no higher than offered…

The move that Amazon's price be no higher than offered elsewhere is the most pro-consumer move possible.

Yet here we are with sellers WANTING to sell their items at a lower price on places other than Amazon, but if they do, they'll go out of business. That doesn't sound pro-consumer.

I'm a consumer. I'd like to be able to buy items for the lowest price the seller wants to offer me. That's not happening in some cases because if they do, Amazon will exclude them and they'll go out of business. Yeah, definitely not pro-consumer. Pro-amazon, sure.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#157

Post by throwaway14356 »

endisneigh wrote: post #119
EGreg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real solution is an open source Amazon. What happened to Magento? Does it have any traction? Why sell on Amazon instead of your own site? Can’t competitors to FBA spring up that have great logistics? Are there any? Can anyone link me to them?

Sellers want Amazon’s audience

which is easy to compete with for a government platform.

in a lot of countries it would save a lot of money if the tax office had direct access to the product and purchase database. Thousands of people could move to more useful jobs.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#158

Post by pnutjam »

cedilla wrote: post #126
endisneigh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the problem with this. They don't have to sell on Amazon to begin with. Amazon obviously wants their customers to have the best price available. Sellers can just go off Amazon if they don't like it. If sellers end up raising the price on other platforms as a result of this rule, then that says more about them than Amazon. Demanding the lowest price does not harm consumers. Overstock, Wayfair, Walmart and…

It does the opposite - it prevents the price going lower than cost plus Amazon fees. Amazon is not exactly cheap for sellers, so the price has to go up everywhere.

I read that, on average, Amazon collects 50% of the cost in fees; from sellers.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#159

Post by jbluepolarbear »

endisneigh wrote: post #139
brookst wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take the charitable interpretation and assume you just don't understand the mechanics of the policy. Amazon is saying that sellers cannot offer a fair low price to customers on other platforms if the seller can't also offer it on Amazon. This is 1) anticompetitive, 2) anticonsumer, and 3) insane. Consider this test: - Seller buys a crappy LED bulb from China for $0.80 - Seller is happy to list the bulb on Walmar…

I disagree. Let's use your example. The sellers should stop selling that item on Amazon, and sell their light bulb on Walmart, or where-ever. Customers who really need that will go find it at Walmart, or where-ever. This strengthens the competitors to Amazon, which is bad for Amazon and good for the consumer. The consumer also find the lower price that they wanted. Alternatively, they buy the alternate product on Ama…

You’re just wrong, Amazon controls around 35% of all US e-commerce. Not being able to sell on Amazon instantly removes most of your available customers. The second largest is Walmart and it’s closer to 7%. Walmart, target, whatever, don’t add up to Amazons market.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#160

Post by throwaway14356 »

endisneigh wrote: post #21
thelastgallon wrote: post #17

An excerpt from: https://pluralistic.net/2023/04/25/greedflation/ Amazon binds its sellers over to something called Most Favored Nation status. That means that sellers can't offer their goods more cheaply than they do on Amazon – even if it costs them (lots) less to sell in Target or direct from their websites. This means that every time a seller adds a dollar to their Amazon sale price, they have to add a dollar to…

I don't see the problem with this. They don't have to sell on Amazon to begin with. Amazon obviously wants their customers to have the best price available. Sellers can just go off Amazon if they don't like it. If sellers end up raising the price on other platforms as a result of this rule, then that says more about them than Amazon. Demanding the lowest price does not harm consumers. Overstock, Wayfair, Walmart and…

it is about the desire to control things that are non of your business.
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