Why aren’t America’s students showing up? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#31

Post by spicyusername » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

mcntsh wrote: post #9

smcg wrote: post #4

The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. The response has been further dehumanization. The older generations who don't have school-age children have been continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes. The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education, actively harming the children in their community. I don't blame…

I think it's unfair to say that wealthy parents send their kids to private schools as a way to actively defund public education. Parents are making this choice to give their kids a better education, and anyone with the same opportunity would do it too.

    Parents are making this choice to give their kids a better education, and anyone with the same opportunity would do it too.

I very much disagree with the assumption that "anyone with the same opportunity would do it too". This is the kind of logic people use when trying to justify something to themselves they know might not be the moral choice, but they want to choose it anyways.

Diverting resources, whether those resources are students, tax dollars, or parental volunteer time, away from public education harms the students who attend public education and harms our society.

Rather than put the time and energy into building a proper community, those with means instead prefer to wall themselves off from the rest of society, which harms everyone.

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#32

Post by slibhb » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

Fully remote was a signal to parents and children that school isn't important. Both groups seem to have taken it to heart. Additionally, the dominant school of thought is that truancy is a systemic problem which in practice means that there are rarely consequences for truant children or their parents.

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#33

Post by gaoshan » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

smcg wrote: post #7

Wow, what a surprise, the answer in the article is to pay teachers more and fund schools more. What do we do if funding increases are not approved? What do we do in poorer areas that have declining tax bases? What do you do in states like Florida where retirees without children flock and refuse to fund education?

People refusing to vote for the greater good because they want to preserve their own wealth (well, their wealth wouldn't be at risk but for some even given up $10 is intolerable in the service of society at large) is a great argument for not allowing them this decision. Some things should not be optional and if you want to live in a certain society you should have to help support that society's civil function. Letting people opt-in or out of critical institutions like public education seems like a road to disaster to me.

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#34

Post by AndrewKemendo » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

I have three kids in public school at one of the best school districts in America

It’s some mix of the following:

- Great engaged teachers

- Overworked and under staffed administrators

- Totally clueless substitutes

- Increasingly impressive mental health focus

- Standardized testing focus

- Increasingly invasive spyware and “security” systems

All of these are the result of the schools trying to balance:

1. Keeping parents not mad (as opposed to happy)

2. staying in line with district and state guidance

3. Graduating and matriculating the student body out of the school safely and “on time” for their peer groups

The challenge is that there’s no super-structure that is measuring or interested in long term outcomes so it’s haphazard and leads to a chaotic system with decreasing utility to the modern world.

My ex wife is an admistrator and previously a teacher and I don’t envy anyone who has to try and work in such a system

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#35

Post by IggleSniggle » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

mcntsh wrote: post #9

smcg wrote: post #4

The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. The response has been further dehumanization. The older generations who don't have school-age children have been continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes. The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education, actively harming the children in their community. I don't blame…

I think it's unfair to say that wealthy parents send their kids to private schools as a way to actively defund public education. Parents are making this choice to give their kids a better education, and anyone with the same opportunity would do it too.

Except that if they put the same money into their public school that they do into the private schools, they'd get even more superior outcomes than they do from funding private schools.

I'm a comparatively wealthy parent, I've bothered to look at the data, and I'm sending my kids to public schools.

I really don't believe it's about giving their kids a better education, because the studies pretty consistently show that public schools have superior outcomes when you adjust for socioeconomic status of individual students and special needs. The private schools of course don't accept these students. It's about exclusivity.

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#36

Post by mcntsh » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:49 PM UTC

GoldenRacer wrote: post #24

mcntsh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unfair to say that wealthy parents send their kids to private schools as a way to actively defund public education. Parents are making this choice to give their kids a better education, and anyone with the same opportunity would do it too.

> The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education They didn't say sending kids to private school was a way to actively defund public education just that wealthy parents do both which is true. What's your motivation to vote and support politicians that advocate for better funded public schools when it doesn't effect your kids but raises your taxes?

Everyone wants well-funded public schools because they produce safer and better communities. Can you think of many safe and affluent cities in the US that have poorly funded public school programs?

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#37

Post by DrThunder » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

Because public schools are garbage and I say this as someone who has a wife that's a teacher and a mom that taught. They don't prioritize getting good staff in the schools. Instead they prioritize things like DEI, thousands on stupid professional development seminars about lgqbtq and pronouns, wasted money on needless tech etc.

It has nothing to do with not having enough tax money. They get more and more every year and waste it on admin positions and useless teacher training.

Additionally, they geared mostly towards girls and how they learn and not boys. By the time kids get near high school age they realize pretty quickly they're just in a daycare that's not really teaching them much at all.

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#38

Post by bannedbybros » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

[dead]

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#39

Post by bannedbybros » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:52 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #26

smcg wrote: post #4

The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. The response has been further dehumanization. The older generations who don't have school-age children have been continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes. The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education, actively harming the children in their community. I don't blame…

> continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes This is so provably false that I'm amazed anyone could have this opinion. The US spends huge amounts on education. More than almost any country. Neither education spending nor property taxes have declined. Government current expenditures: Education https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/G160291A027NBEA Personal Current Tax Receipts: State and Local G…

>The US spends huge amounts on education... for rich people

FTFY

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/97916.asp

Re: Why aren’t America’s students showing up?

#40

Post by c22 » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:52 PM UTC

GoldenRacer wrote: post #24

mcntsh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unfair to say that wealthy parents send their kids to private schools as a way to actively defund public education. Parents are making this choice to give their kids a better education, and anyone with the same opportunity would do it too.

> The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education They didn't say sending kids to private school was a way to actively defund public education just that wealthy parents do both which is true. What's your motivation to vote and support politicians that advocate for better funded public schools when it doesn't effect your kids but raises your taxes?

Maybe you'd like to see the public school system improve so your grandchildren can attend it? Maybe you just want assurance that the serfs flipping your burgers can accurately read the sanitization instructions on their equipment?

People are all different and their motivations are complex. Not everyone is angling for ultimate personal advantage and maximum externalization of downside, even amongst the wealthy.