D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect • Hacker News Board

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#341

Post by sitkack » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:04 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #291

Chris2048 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just for infra failure. When your credit card provider cuts you off for "unusual activity" that they won't go into detail about, and you realise they are free to refuse you business as they feel like - you'll appreciate cash while rushing to find a new provider as existing debts still loom.

I'm not even sure if it's possible to pay most bills in cash in my country. I have had a bank account frozen due to identity theft; it took me less than 10 minutes to open a new account and get a new debit card in my Google Wallet. The bank transferred my funds within a couple of hours and all of my recurring payments were automatically switched within a couple of days. Maybe my experiences are atypical, but my impre…

You are moving the goal posts. Before it was retail transactions and now it is bill pay.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#342

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:04 PM UTC

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #198

makeitdouble wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. But most businesses do. The main issue is there: why should a business be forced by law to accept cash if they absolutely need electricty and cables to work as a business ? It's one step below forcing them to accept hand written checks. Those are also extremely resilient, you just need a pen and paper. But god no I wouldn't want to deal with…

I agree with what you said but I still think cash should be accepted as baseline. Anyone can use cash. That said, I can also understand businesses wanting to do away with it - no need to dealt with it; secure it, count it, deposit it, … etc.

[deleted]

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#343

Post by strathmeyer » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:04 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #254

nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

If our nations air traffic controllers can figure it out I think big business can too.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#344

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

blackshaw wrote: post #335

makeitdouble wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my comment > Sure cash should be accepted in shops selling essential goods. But other shops should have the choice. That basically covers you whole list, except if your argument is that gaming PC parts shop should absolutely accomodate cash in case homeless people need an RTX3060 over the weekend. Also fundamdentally a bank account should be a legal right (it is in many countries, if it's not in yours it's a mor…

Who are you to decide what other people should consider essential?

I don't, we have a definition of what's essential businesses. That's how it was handled during the covid lockdowns, shop owners know where they fit on this line.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#345

Post by darkclouds » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #297

jdietrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

I think you might be surprised by how many larger stores and grocery stores especially are prepared to operate in low power or no power conditions if necessary. Another side effect of this DC rule will be to ensure that more are prepared too.

[dead]

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#346

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #120

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give y…

> If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give you a 3% discount for paying with debit. I don't believe that a merchant is allowed to do this? Probably very dependent on your deal with credit card processors but my understanding is that the default contract between a merchant and a credit card processor stipulates that you are not allowed to offer discounts to not use credit cards differently. Of cou…

> I don't believe that a merchant is allowed to do this?

A federal law was passed over 10 years ago allowing this.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/new-rules-el...

> A PCN cannot stop you from offering your customers a discount or another incentive for using a certain method of payment, as long as you offer it to all your customers and disclose the offer clearly and conspicuously. For example, you can offer your customers a discount or a coupon if they pay with cash or a debit card rather than a credit card.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#347

Post by sitkack » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #319

sgjohnson wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. To be fair, credit cards also don't. At least didn't need to, up until very recently, when most issuers stopped embossing their credit cards. Imprinters exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter Sure, the risk here is that the charge would get declined later on, but you get the same risk if you accept personal checks.

I don't really understand the point of this comment. "Credit cards don't need this network, except realistically they do , they just didn't used to." So in some scenario where electricity is unavailable, credit cards will be just as worthless in most cases as apps and gift cards.

You are feigning confusion, you do understand it. Please don't propagate this mind virus here.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#348

Post by axus » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #254

nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

That's a reason to have a bank with traditional branches. Also a reason for land-lines that don't require a separate power source.

I think South Africa has had power problems in recent years, might be good to look at how they've dealt with it?

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#349

Post by XorNot » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

throwaway9870 wrote: post #281

jdietrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

Have you never walked into a store and they said you can't use a CC because their reader is down? It is nice to have a few dollars in your pocket for times like that.

I have never needed to buy things so urgently that this would ever come up.

If a store's CC reader is down, then I'm just plain not transacting their that day. That's fine: there are other stores.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#350

Post by ChoGGi » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

xmcqdpt2 wrote: post #294

saagarjha wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long would that last you, though? I’d go through that in a week…

If there is like a hurricane and your whole city is out of power for a week and you can't leave, there will be distributions of water and food pretty quickly. IMO you need the cash more to make the first day or two easier, or if there is a card payment outage as happened last year here in Canada, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Rogers_Communications_o...

Moneris just had an outage a week or two ago on Sat.