The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax” • Hacker News Board

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#31

Post by Jensson » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:02 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #21

thelastgallon wrote: post #17

An excerpt from: https://pluralistic.net/2023/04/25/greedflation/ Amazon binds its sellers over to something called Most Favored Nation status. That means that sellers can't offer their goods more cheaply than they do on Amazon – even if it costs them (lots) less to sell in Target or direct from their websites. This means that every time a seller adds a dollar to their Amazon sale price, they have to add a dollar to…

I don't see the problem with this. They don't have to sell on Amazon to begin with. Amazon obviously wants their customers to have the best price available. Sellers can just go off Amazon if they don't like it. If sellers end up raising the price on other platforms as a result of this rule, then that says more about them than Amazon. Demanding the lowest price does not harm consumers. Overstock, Wayfair, Walmart and…

It is none of Amazons business what prices they put when they list their wares on other services, the only reason they care is that they want to crush the competition.

Dictating how retailers can interact with your competitors is anti-competitive. Dictating what prices they can offer when they put up listings is a part of that, it is anti-competitive.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#32

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

icegreentea2 wrote: post #28

endisneigh wrote: post #12

It seems the government's main issue is that they have problems with companies being large. If that's the issue they should lobby congress to simply enforce some maximum size/impact a company has. My opinion on this is that e-commerce is extremely competitive and consumers are already highly motivated to pay the least amount of money. If it were cheaper for consumers to go elsewhere they would, and sellers would foll…

I think you're right that the government does have 'limit the size of companies' as a motivation, but I don't think that's their main motivation. For one thing, how would you even right and enforce a law on maximum size/impact of a company? How would this even politically get through? There's already enough push-back against enforcing laws like "don't form cartels". The pushback on maximum size/impact of a company wo…

> In any case, as the article states, "Today, Amazon tells sellers that if it detects a lower price for their products on any other online store, they will be punished, which is to say, their ability to get their products onto a place on the Amazon website where customers click will go away.". In other words, e-commerce is not extremely competitive.

This is a good thing, and those sellers can leave Amazon.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#33

Post by mjsweet » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #27

mjsweet wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, it’s not that simple. Sellers need the sheer volume of Amazon to compete. There is also the risk of Amazon duplicating their product and continuing to sell it on their platform… or their competitors filling the void.

So what? That's how e-commerce works. Why should Amazon be obligated to fill their store with higher priced items compared to their competitors? No one is going to visit a store where every item could be purchased cheaper somewhere else. This is exactly why price match is a thing, because they don't want their costumers soliciting different stores to begin with. The move that Amazon's price be no higher than offered…

The market should decide. That’s commerce.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#34

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #31

endisneigh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the problem with this. They don't have to sell on Amazon to begin with. Amazon obviously wants their customers to have the best price available. Sellers can just go off Amazon if they don't like it. If sellers end up raising the price on other platforms as a result of this rule, then that says more about them than Amazon. Demanding the lowest price does not harm consumers. Overstock, Wayfair, Walmart and…

It is none of Amazons business what prices they put when they list their wares on other services, the only reason they care is that they want to crush the competition. Dictating how retailers can interact with your competitors is anti-competitive. Dictating what prices they can offer when they put up listings is a part of that, it is anti-competitive.

[flagged]

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#35

Post by xgl5k » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

FTC should go after other industries that are far more harmful to customers than tech. ISPs, healthcare/insurance, etc. Tech should be no where near the top of concerns for the FTC.

This is a political stunt. If Lena Khan and the FTC were actually interested in consumer protection, they would go after other industries first.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#36

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

mjsweet wrote: post #33

endisneigh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? That's how e-commerce works. Why should Amazon be obligated to fill their store with higher priced items compared to their competitors? No one is going to visit a store where every item could be purchased cheaper somewhere else. This is exactly why price match is a thing, because they don't want their costumers soliciting different stores to begin with. The move that Amazon's price be no higher than offered…

The market should decide. That’s commerce.

Yes, exactly. These sellers should and can just leave Amazon if they have a problem with it.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#37

Post by mjsweet » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:05 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #36

mjsweet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market should decide. That’s commerce.

Yes, exactly. These sellers should and can just leave Amazon if they have a problem with it.

No, they should be able to set their own pricing as they see fit.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#38

Post by kibwen » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:05 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #27

mjsweet wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, it’s not that simple. Sellers need the sheer volume of Amazon to compete. There is also the risk of Amazon duplicating their product and continuing to sell it on their platform… or their competitors filling the void.

So what? That's how e-commerce works. Why should Amazon be obligated to fill their store with higher priced items compared to their competitors? No one is going to visit a store where every item could be purchased cheaper somewhere else. This is exactly why price match is a thing, because they don't want their costumers soliciting different stores to begin with. The move that Amazon's price be no higher than offered…

I don't even know where to begin with this comment. Do you know what anticompetitive behavior is? Do you know how markets are supposed to work? Amazon is leveraging their position in the market to unfairly disadvantage their competitors, thereby distorting the market, decreasing its efficiency, and increasing end prices for consumers everywhere. Market-distorting behavior like this is why antitrust regulation is necessary to keep markets functioning efficiently.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#39

Post by kmeisthax » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:05 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #21

thelastgallon wrote: post #17

An excerpt from: https://pluralistic.net/2023/04/25/greedflation/ Amazon binds its sellers over to something called Most Favored Nation status. That means that sellers can't offer their goods more cheaply than they do on Amazon – even if it costs them (lots) less to sell in Target or direct from their websites. This means that every time a seller adds a dollar to their Amazon sale price, they have to add a dollar to…

I don't see the problem with this. They don't have to sell on Amazon to begin with. Amazon obviously wants their customers to have the best price available. Sellers can just go off Amazon if they don't like it. If sellers end up raising the price on other platforms as a result of this rule, then that says more about them than Amazon. Demanding the lowest price does not harm consumers. Overstock, Wayfair, Walmart and…

So, to be clear, you have no problem with Amazon writing their own laws and collecting their own taxes? Because that is what they are effectively doing.

Re: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax”

#40

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #39

endisneigh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the problem with this. They don't have to sell on Amazon to begin with. Amazon obviously wants their customers to have the best price available. Sellers can just go off Amazon if they don't like it. If sellers end up raising the price on other platforms as a result of this rule, then that says more about them than Amazon. Demanding the lowest price does not harm consumers. Overstock, Wayfair, Walmart and…

So, to be clear, you have no problem with Amazon writing their own laws and collecting their own taxes? Because that is what they are effectively doing.

If sellers were obligated to sell on Amazon that would be the case, but it's not, is it? Ironically, people complaining about this are exacerbating the issue. If sellers who actually cared left Amazon it would loosen Amazon's dominance in e-commerce.