Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 508 posts

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#201

Post by nonrandomstring »

yftsui wrote: post #180
nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

Cash is a superior technology for security -> Huh? The bullet proof glass cage protecting the cashiers is the “technology”.

That's too literal a view. In security thinking we have to consider the safety of all stakeholders, and the whole ecosystem/collective/society at large.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#202

Post by shapefrog »

dehrmann wrote: post #143
aketchum wrote: post #15

I have no dog in this fight as I rarely deal with cash and do not run a retail business. However from a conceptual point of view I really have a viscerally negative reaction to not accepting cash. It is a societal acceptance of the rent seeking behavior of the credit processing networks. I already have to pay a sales tax to ${TAX_ENTITIES.length} different government entities, I don't love that I also have a 3% tax g…

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... People seem to forget processing cash isn't free. If you're small, it's a trip to the bank. If you're large, it's an armored truck. Employee theft is a problem. Counterfeit money is a problem. If we pretend it's 1% instead of 3% (since you can get 2% cash back), 1% for not dealing with the downsides of cash sounds ok.

Banks also literally charge a % fee to deposit cash into your account.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#203

Post by throwaway2037 »

usr1106 wrote: post #183
ma_advertising wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

like what European Union did with the basic bank account

I understand those are more expensive than normal accounts on commercial basis, bad value for the money. It's only that the bank cannot refuse to open a basic account because they don't like the customer's business. I doubt a debit card is included. Those accounts are needed because all wages and even social benefits are only paid by bank transfer in most EU countries. Disclaimer: Haven't checked the details now.

    I doubt a debit card is included.
Is it possible to get a bank account now without a debit card? ATM card only must be incredibly rare. Plus, the bank makes more money on debit card purchases than cash (that was withdrawn from ATM).

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#204

Post by sambazi »

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #198
makeitdouble wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. But most businesses do. The main issue is there: why should a business be forced by law to accept cash if they absolutely need electricty and cables to work as a business ? It's one step below forcing them to accept hand written checks. Those are also extremely resilient, you just need a pen and paper. But god no I wouldn't want to deal with…

I agree with what you said but I still think cash should be accepted as baseline. Anyone can use cash. That said, I can also understand businesses wanting to do away with it - no need to dealt with it; secure it, count it, deposit it, … etc.

thou, the cash handling overhead/cost does not scale linear with revenue like cc fees do

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#205

Post by theshrike79 »

Findecanor wrote: post #167
kxrm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically do avoid any business that is cashless. I appreciate any business that puts a sign up claiming to be cashless so that I can specifically avoid doing business with them.

I used to have that position, but here in Sweden the cashless have won and there is nobody who even cares to uphold the law. The same could happen elsewhere. It is pretty much only the civil defence authority that encourages use of cash, because they are aware of the incessant hacking attacks that could disrupt the system at any moment. Cash has become less convenient for consumers: businesses refusing to take cash m…

Finn here. I haven’t used cash since Covid, it’s all card-based.

I do carry emergency cash with me, but it’s been in my wallet for 2 years now.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#206

Post by seanhunter »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #138
rendaw wrote: post #85

In India, even rural farmers have easy cashless mobile payments. In D.C., the capital of the US, nobody has easy cashless mobile payments, and even card payments are too difficult, with the government finally giving up and enshrining cash.

Good luck when a bank decides to freeze your account because you called a politician a fat pig.

Are you referring to a specific incident here? Do you have a reference?

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#208

Post by sambazi »

pjc50 wrote: post #193
lacker wrote: post #135

I've noticed recently more of the food truck or farmers' market type businesses aren't officially cashless, which is illegal in California AFAIU. They just don't have change for a $20. It's a real problem that some people cannot afford the fees on a bank account, but I would prefer that we find some way to provide everyone with minimum banking services. Like a no-fee government-provided debit card. I know, the govern…

> They just don't have change for a $20. Malicious compliance is fun. Besides, having to have change is the really big cost of cash handling. Almost all your customers come in with big notes from an ATM and leave with smaller notes or coins, so you have to keep getting change from the bank. Just rebrand "not giving change" as "mandatory tipping" and it's even a pro-worker move!

> Just rebrand "not giving change" as "mandatory tipping" and it's even a pro-worker move!

rounding-up to avoid handling change is the norm when paying cash in "tippable" situations like at restaurants or farmer's markets.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#209

Post by nonrandomstring »

makeitdouble wrote: post #178
nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

> It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. But most businesses do. The main issue is there: why should a business be forced by law to accept cash if they absolutely need electricty and cables to work as a business ? It's one step below forcing them to accept hand written checks. Those are also extremely resilient, you just need a pen and paper. But god no I wouldn't want to deal with…

> But most businesses do.

Ummm, for quite small values of "most" :)

I have a handle on this because I set a resilience assignment to a cohort of about 20 MBAs at a business school. Specifically I asked for a representative range of businesses;

- fast food - gymnasiums and sports - nail bars and hairdressers - auto-repair and mechanic/garages - child and day-care

.... you get the picture, _loads_ of variety.

They did 1 hour, 12 hour, 24 hour and one week case models.

As tech people, we are probably biased to think too heavily about digital and electronic systems. Many businesses can function in "survival mode" during a tech outage, including electricity in some cases.

As I recall, after "telephone", it was payment systems that were the real killer. Interestingly many access control systems fail-safe simply locking everyone out of the buildings!

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#210

Post by usr1106 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #203
usr1106 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand those are more expensive than normal accounts on commercial basis, bad value for the money. It's only that the bank cannot refuse to open a basic account because they don't like the customer's business. I doubt a debit card is included. Those accounts are needed because all wages and even social benefits are only paid by bank transfer in most EU countries. Disclaimer: Haven't checked the details now.

I doubt a debit card is included. Is it possible to get a bank account now without a debit card? ATM card only must be incredibly rare. Plus, the bank makes more money on debit card purchases than cash (that was withdrawn from ATM).

> Is it possible to get a bank account now without a debit card?

Absolutely. I have one myself.

I have the had the account for nearly 30 years and maybe I should completely close it. But for "historic reasons" some senders know only that account and some direct debit is still active there. But I have cancelled my cards a decade ago when I intended to close the account.

Post reply on HN