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Career Advice (2013)

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Re: Career Advice (2013)

#61

Post by saberience »

kstenerud wrote: post #11

No. What the experiment showed is that you can be TEMPORARILY coerced into certain behaviors in abusive environments (especially by authority figures - as was exemplified in the Milgram experiment), but it won't change who you actually are. The SPE is really a study in toxic workplaces and abusive relationships. I really wish people would stop quoting the SPE without researching what actually happened and why (and th…

> Don't worry: You are NOT your job, and your job isn't going to change you forever. This is just a scare piece.

Jobs definitely can and do change people though. For a while I worked for a financial company (and I had previously worked in videogames) and I definitely became a different person there, one whom I didn't like. I ended up leaving because I could see myself changing over time and it made me uncomfortable when looking at the "lifers" in the company and understanding that was my future.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#62

Post by barbs »

grecy wrote: post #34

> “if I were you, I’d hitchhike to Alaska this summer instead.” I agree 100%, best advice there is. After a couple of years working as a Software Engineer, I sold all my stuff and drove my little Jeep up to Alaska to a whole summer of camping, hiking and exploring. I hiked into the Magic Bus (of Into the Wild Fame), paddled with icebergs, and saw more bears, moose, bald eagles, salmon and mountains than I can count.…

That sounds fantastic! What are you up to now?

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#63

Post by edu »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #44
kstenerud wrote: post #11

No. What the experiment showed is that you can be TEMPORARILY coerced into certain behaviors in abusive environments (especially by authority figures - as was exemplified in the Milgram experiment), but it won't change who you actually are. The SPE is really a study in toxic workplaces and abusive relationships. I really wish people would stop quoting the SPE without researching what actually happened and why (and th…

You don't think post college jobs and experiences change you? You don't think being a salaryman vs a school teacher versus world travel changes your perspective values and behaviors? But it is healthy to keep this perspective (Tyler durdens assertion) and always try to grow in some way that isn't involved with money

I agree with both. Your job is a pretty big part of your life and, like any experience you have, it shapes you.

You’re a complex and constantly evolving human. Your job is a part of you, like it’s your family, friends, education, hobbies, media you consume, ideas, secrets…

So, you’re not your job but your job is a big part of you.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#65

Post by danielmarkbruce »

saganus wrote: post #39
throwaway_75369 wrote: post #14

Should be labelled (2013). Would be nice if I didn't have to say that; in so many ways the bloom is off the rose of my (admittedly high paying) corporate job. I even recently reunited with some old friends who chose a more independent career path, and was jealous and nostalgic- they're definitely working far closer to their passions with more freedom than I've felt in a decade. But man, what a decade since 2013. I wo…

Along those lines, one of the things that I still struggle with after 20+ years of working, is squaring this feeling of not working enough/earn enough money to have a comfortable retirement, while at the same time trying to live my life and not just work myself until death (very original, I know). So I've always had this conflict with the saying that goes something like "nobody regrets not working more, while in thei…

fwiw i think more people struggle with this tradeoff than it seems, and more people question the "nobody regrets... " quote. You are far from alone.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#66

Post by hyperthesis »

kstenerud wrote: post #11

No. What the experiment showed is that you can be TEMPORARILY coerced into certain behaviors in abusive environments (especially by authority figures - as was exemplified in the Milgram experiment), but it won't change who you actually are. The SPE is really a study in toxic workplaces and abusive relationships. I really wish people would stop quoting the SPE without researching what actually happened and why (and th…

Maybe not change you, but become mistaken as to who you are.

But who is anyone, anyway? How do you know? Is the old advice is profound or meaningless:

  Temet Nosce

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#67

Post by robertlagrant »

kstenerud wrote: post #22
Atrine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't what I took away from it. It's basically your environment really dictates a lot of who you are and what you become. From my experience, this is absolutely the case.

Your environment during your early formative years, yes. By the time you're in your mid-late teens, your moral reasoning is already pretty much solidified (and really it's more about clan loyalty than morality at that point - although we often conflate the two when it comes to inter-clan conflict).

Reasoning I think keeps developing with your brain to your mid-20s.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#68

Post by hyperthesis »

farmeroy wrote: post #43

I spent my twenties riding freight trains across the US and cycling across Europe and Asia, living off of music. I'm not sure I would recommend that to anyone who is looking for career advice - Now I'm trying to build a solid career for myself as a software developer and I have no idea if it is easier with all that behind me or not. While I'm hoping that the soft skills and self knowledge I may have acquired over the…

I think if you're engaged with what you do, you will learn and develop more than if not.

OTOH there seems to be a developmental window for some specific skills, e.g. phoneme acquisition 6-12 months; (human) language acquisition < 7 years.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#69

Post by ipaddr »

matt_daemon wrote: post #32
kstenerud wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your environment during your early formative years, yes. By the time you're in your mid-late teens, your moral reasoning is already pretty much solidified (and really it's more about clan loyalty than morality at that point - although we often conflate the two when it comes to inter-clan conflict).

Maybe in an ideal world, but in practically any real world scenario this isn't the case. Spend enough time somewhere and the mechanics of that place inevitably influence the way we act, in the workforce and out.

You can change the work environment. The ability to influence goes both ways.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#70

Post by aranchelk »

monological wrote: post #47
aranchelk wrote: post #38

> Tyler Durden was wrong, you are your job. So cringe.

It’s ok to be cringe. Try expressing yourself sometime instead of always conforming.

> Try expressing yourself

Okay. The reason I find that heading painful to read is it seems to miss the entire point of the quote. The line is said in the context of a world where everyone already is defining themselves by their jobs, possessions, etc. it’s not descriptive, it’s prescriptive. So it can’t really even be wrong.

My memory of the book is it’s fairly philosophical, getting at modernity and the human condition. It’s quite traditionally masculine and violent and I get that that turns a lot of people off. Love it or hate it, quotes of it probably don’t belong in a LinkedIn-style “here’s some advice kids” article.

Moreover, it’s just too easy — low hanging fruit, e.g.

Tyler Durden said “once you you lose everything you’re free to do anything” but that’s not right because many activities are expensive and you’ll need money.

Yuck.

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