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D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

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Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#111

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #83
foolswisdom wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that's correct, that effectively boils down to the same thing? Prices would be somewhat lower if merchants didn't need to consider the ~3% disappearing in the payment processor.

My point is that merchants do not NEED to consider the 3% disappearing. They can post a sign right now telling people “3% discount for using debit”. The merchants that do not offer lower debit prices choose to pay the extra 3%. It is up to the customer to decide if prices at merchant that gives debit discount or merchant that does not give debit discount are better.

[deleted]

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#112

Post by rascul »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60
aketchum wrote: post #15

I have no dog in this fight as I rarely deal with cash and do not run a retail business. However from a conceptual point of view I really have a viscerally negative reaction to not accepting cash. It is a societal acceptance of the rent seeking behavior of the credit processing networks. I already have to pay a sales tax to ${TAX_ENTITIES.length} different government entities, I don't love that I also have a 3% tax g…

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give y…

> > I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/...

> You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash.

Today I picked up flooring from a place that gave a 5% discount for paying with cash or check. Many gas stations around here are around 3% less when paying with cash. At such places you pay extra for the convenience of the card.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#113

Post by nottheengineer »

maximilianroos wrote: post #103
dwallin wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally you decide by voting. It’s either that or you decide things by who has the most money / power / guns.

Right — we could decide whether each transaction should take place by voting on it. But that would be really inefficient! So instead, we generally let people trade with each other as long as it doesn't intrude on others. Not sure whether Sweetgreen choosing to go cashless is an example of "decide things by who has the most money / power / guns."?

It is an example of who has the most power. If you don't have a different service that does the same for you, you'll have to suck it up or live without the service.

This becomes a big issue as soon as all services in a specific niche do 'the thing', be it refusing cash or stuff like removing headphone jacks.

At that point, what are you gonna do? Stop using products from that niche altogether?

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#114

Post by lobf »

telotortium wrote: post #107
lobf wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are robberies a product of?

Greed.

Why are they correlated with low-income areas then? Surely greed is more or less evenly distributed in the population… do you think there might be a reason why robberies aren’t?

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#115

Post by phito »

farzinadil wrote: post #8

Ridiculous. Why not also then force cash only businesses into taking card and mobile payments also?

They've just done that in my country. Every business is obligated to have a way to pay using card (bancontact, payconic, ...). Cashless is allowed and it seems like it's where we are unfortunately heading

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#116

Post by SuperNinKenDo »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #57
SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the state has limited ability to compel business relationships, thank God, and taking card effectively means enforcing a business relationship with a duopoly.

The 10th amendment gives states nearly unlimited right to enact any law. Many states literally have emergency power laws which grant the Governor essentially dictatorial powers (to create and enforce laws himself; by decree), which was used for lockdowns and mask mandates. It's a common misconception that arises from state legislatures doing nothing for several decades, but the power is there.

I'm referring to "The State" not "the states". But otherwise, emergency powers are exactly that. At least in theory they are something that provides the state powers it would not normally have for a temporary period. Ideally with some checks against perpetual maintenance.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#117

Post by SuperNinKenDo »

Spivak wrote: post #56
SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the state has limited ability to compel business relationships, thank God, and taking card effectively means enforcing a business relationship with a duopoly.

Is that really any different from Netflix being card only? Or worse being online-only so you need a relationship to an ISP?

Personally I think Netflix should be compelled to offer a path to using cash as well.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#118

Post by tjbiddle »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60
aketchum wrote: post #15

I have no dog in this fight as I rarely deal with cash and do not run a retail business. However from a conceptual point of view I really have a viscerally negative reaction to not accepting cash. It is a societal acceptance of the rent seeking behavior of the credit processing networks. I already have to pay a sales tax to ${TAX_ENTITIES.length} different government entities, I don't love that I also have a 3% tax g…

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give y…

> You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash.

Why are you putting the onus on the retailer? Don't assume malice or intent from them.

I operate online businesses; so 99% of my sales are credit card. I get the occasional wire/ACH or a check in the mail. I'd love to not pay 3% of all my revenue to credit card processors, but most people want to use credit card / PayPal / etc. because it's more convenient for them.

I'm happy to offer a discount if someone wants to pay via a non-credit card, but I don't raise my prices because of it. I just have to suck it up and eat that cost. My margins are not high and I would've made about 27% more last year had I not had to do that. You're welcome.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#119

Post by jdjdjdjdjduuuu »

kxrm wrote: post #19

I live in DC and support this law not just from an accessibility standpoint but also from a privacy standpoint. I am tired of every retail/restaurant establishment building a profile of me.

They probably can still do it with facial recognition

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#120

Post by rtpg »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60
aketchum wrote: post #15

I have no dog in this fight as I rarely deal with cash and do not run a retail business. However from a conceptual point of view I really have a viscerally negative reaction to not accepting cash. It is a societal acceptance of the rent seeking behavior of the credit processing networks. I already have to pay a sales tax to ${TAX_ENTITIES.length} different government entities, I don't love that I also have a 3% tax g…

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give y…

> If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give you a 3% discount for paying with debit.

I don't believe that a merchant is allowed to do this? Probably very dependent on your deal with credit card processors but my understanding is that the default contract between a merchant and a credit card processor stipulates that you are not allowed to offer discounts to not use credit cards differently.

Of course if you are Target-sized, you get special treatment. My understanding is stuff like Redcard is basically just Target "giving back" their cut of processing fees...

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