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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#611

Post by jjav »

jayd16 wrote: post #304
badtension wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all", to put it mildly. We are so focused on climate change and greenhouse gases that we do not see a lot of other issues and may exacerbate some of them in the process of decarbonisation.

This sentiment is just contrarianism, I think. I've lived in Los Angeles my whole life and the difference that clean air standards make is obvious. The black dust isn't just tire and brake dust. It's also soot and it used to be much much worse. Nothing is a silver bullet but I'll be much happier when we're done with ICE noise and exhaust.

> This sentiment is just contrarianism, I think.

Maybe some of it, but it's very valid point.

Switching everything about the country's infrastructure from gas to EVs is a huge undertaking. If we're going to do such a massive change, just to end up with something that still carries all the same problems except one, that's a missed opportunity.

If there was a will to spend that quantity of effort in making public transit practical for the long haul and heavily promoting cycling and e-bikes for the short haul we'd be much better off.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#612

Post by jjav »

Kirby64 wrote: post #349
oatmeal1 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally agreed, but the noise from cars is mostly friction and turbulence (and honking/sirens). Switching to electric won't solve that.

The car noise problem is partially solved (or improved) by EVs, actually. The tires used on EVs tend to be efficient (low rolling resistance), which translates to less noisy tires. Additionally, their body shape tends to aim towards very aerodynamic so they have less turbulence noise. If they didn't do this, their efficiency would be much worse so it essentially becomes a necessity. It's pretty evident when you drive…

> The tires used on EVs tend to be efficient (low rolling resistance), which translates to less noisy tires.

EVs are just cars, any tire that you can put on an EV you can also put on an ICE car, so that is not a differentiator.

EVs tend to be heavier though, and weight is a primary factor in how fast a tire wears.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#613

Post by jjav »

matsemann wrote: post #529
michaelteter wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all" Certainly no, that's not why people are "cautious". They are hesitant about EVs because they fear running out of "gas" mid-trip. Most people don't give a shit about anything except their plans and needs (and not necessarily unreasonbly so). You can just look around at what kinds of cars most people purchase to reason what their priorities are (or are…

Range anxiety was solved years ago. I don't know of anyone with an EV (which is most car owners here in Norway) that actually feel this is a problem. You can charge at basically every gas station in the country, and new cars have 400km ++ range.

> Range anxiety was solved years ago.

Well no, it wasn't. My partner just bought a new EV recently and range anxiety is huge. I've been researching places to charge and there's nothing convenient nearby. There's an old business campus but it's a sketchy area to go sit for an hour or more. There's one near a starbucks close by but they are ridiculously expensive (95c/kwh). The best one is at a whole foods, but requires driving 15 minutes away from their destination, go sit there for an hour and then drive to campus. Not so great.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#614

Post by jjav »

artursapek wrote: post #432
badtension wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all", to put it mildly. We are so focused on climate change and greenhouse gases that we do not see a lot of other issues and may exacerbate some of them in the process of decarbonisation.

EVs rip through tires lol

> EVs rip through tires lol

Yes, they do. Even our lowly Fiat 500e's consumed tires much faster than any of our ICE cars.

It's not just raw power, which a Fiat 500e doesn't have much.

It's the fact that with an electric motor you have 100% torque at 0rpm starting from a standstill, which is when there is most opportunity to briefly spin the tire. Tire wear is much reduced when driving in a straight line at a constant speed.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#615

Post by lobocinza »

margalabargala wrote: post #516
lobocinza wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a low range EV is enough 100% just buy a bike.

How often does it rain and snow where you live? Do you have kids?

Very rarely actually and I don't have kids. I live in a small city and bicycles are the better mode vehicle for daily transportation. There are many reasons for someone to have a car: travel, heat waves, kids, etc. But the number 1 reason is because it is a symbol of status.

People will buy a car because otherwise they would be a low status male and they want to f#. Note that cars are expensive, I live in a poor country with absurd interest rates, so many are making debts that they will need a decade to get rid of, if ever, just so they can constitute a family.

Here at least car culture is squeezing the middle class into indebtedness and poverty and overcrowding the streets with cars and idiots, not a causal relation but a dangerous combination. Cars are great tools but f# car culture.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#616

Post by bequanna »

bedobi wrote: post #568
bequanna wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of that. However, instead of telling people what they can and can’t do, let’s endeavor to make cars better for the environment. Screaming at normal people that they have to give up their earthly possessions and retreat from society in order to save the world is nothing new and it never works.

That’s not what we’re saying though, all we’re saying is let’s get serious about alternatives to driving, the rest will follow. And yeah the die hards who will never give up their car, fine, but they better be prepared to pay the price for the externalities they generate, which isn’t the case currently. I also think it’s funny you think it’s us who are trying to force people to retreat from society. The single family…

Dude, if you think pretty much everyone else in the US is wrong except you and your fringe group, I’d reevaluate your position.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#617

Post by dataflow »

Symbiote wrote: post #363
CableNinja wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As i mentioned in my other post. Thats not far for most people. More than 1/4 mile and people will not hesitate to get the car

Are you serious? That's 400m. One lap of the athletics track. Should take about 4 minutes at walking speed. Aren't there shopping malls in the US longer/wider than this? I think I walk further than that between buildings to get to the canteen at lunch time. I tell people I live "really close" to a metro station and it's 380m away.

> Are you serious? That's 400m. [...] Aren't there shopping malls in the US longer/wider than this?

It's not like people go to malls as frequently as they go grocery shopping, so this doesn't really imply anything. Also don't forget you're carrying potentially heavy bags. Also don't forget not everyone is a fit 30yo.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#618

Post by paulmd »

afuchs wrote: post #589
badtension wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point about shared roadways that probably split communities. Do kids attending the same school really live that far apart? Seems like a very long distance, especially in a suburbian neighbourhood.

That is my experience in the East coast US. Here, the suburbs are very spread out, with amenities 15-20 minutes away by car. There are older suburbs where that is not true, but that's more of an exception. Housing in those older suburbs costs more than the newer more spread out developments and there are fewer of them than the newer more spread out ones. Typically, those old suburbs were originally built around train…

it's incredibly ironic but I've lucked into a very bikeable community in a rust-belt state, we have extensive rails-to-trails here and in this situation the rails followed the main state (2-lane) highway, or vice versa. so I actually can bike to some things specifically thanks to rails to trails.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#619

Post by TeMPOraL »

anlsh wrote: post #313
baggy_trough wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say something similar about computers?

No. But we're talking about cars, not computers, and their novelty is just one among many strong pieces of evidence that a much less car-dependent society is possible, even desirable. Perhaps you can refute the existence billions of people on the planet who live without commuting via car, or the dense networks of public transit which they often rely on?

> Perhaps you can refute the existence billions of people on the planet who live without commuting via car, or the dense networks of public transit which they often rely on?

You have to remember that the infrastructure they depend on to have drinkable water, stores with food on shelves, power and other media, itself is built around cars and trucks, and depends on them being available and able to drive everywhere. Cars are intertwined with everything else in modern civilization - you can't just rip them out. Even if everyone other than critical infrastructure operators suddenly got rid of their cars, this still wouldn't let you eliminate roads from the city, as the trucks and construction equipment and ambulances etc. need to be able to go everywhere.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#620

Post by earthling8118 »

suprfnk wrote: post #206
whoknowsidont wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The positive externalities are even more enormous What do cars specifically positively provide? NOT including the positives that exists due to constructing infrastructure around that mode of transportation (artificial issues).

Being by far the most convenient way to travel from home to pretty much any random location. Speaking from the Netherlands with a relatively good public transit system.

It's not the most convenient because of cars. It's more that the other options are less convenient because of cars.
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