Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't be too optimistic: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/us/21latina.html As I said, the confounding factors exist, but they seem relatively minor. Attempting to effectively homogenize the diverse human gene pool through education is anything but a new effort. If it was possible to educate the Mbuti pygmies of the Congo into the cognitive equivalent of Great Neck Jews, don't you think someone would have tried this…
I have another rational question for you: if an Ashkenazi family adopted a Pygmy baby and raised her, how smart would she be?
A Woman’s Story
141–150 of 210 posts
Re: A Woman’s Story
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Job interviews aren't for the purpose of predicting future achievement? Say again? there's a lot of ugly historical baggage where science has met race in the past. There is indeed: http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/meta/gould-morton-lewis-2... If that isn't ugly, what is?
Here is a link to the actual paper instead of someone's highly editorialized blog post. http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal....
You're really doing Professor Hawks a disservice by imagining him as some kind of foul right-wing agitator. He's actually bending over backward to be fair.
Here's how a slightly more partisan biologist (Peter Frost) responds to the same material:
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2011/07/arroseur-arrose.html
Here's the NY Times:
Re: A Woman’s Story
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because in the past, the IQ tests were not fair, objective and colour-blind, but were set up in such a way as to bias against poorer people (which will be mostly black in the USA). Is this a conspiracy theory? It sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory to me. Just sayin'. Conspiracies do happen. However, when you're trying to persuade me of a conspiracy theory, the burden of proof is high. I expect links - lots…
It's not a conspiracy theory. >However, it would be interesting to hear someone explain how they were designed by racists to be racist. No one in this thread has claimed this. Stop trying to invent a polemic. It just turns out that whatever IQ does measure correlates heavily with income and where you were born which in turn correlates with race.
No one in this thread has claimed this. Stop trying to invent a polemic.
Note that this comment was posted before raganwald wrote "and possibly deliberately so," above. So it's not as obtuse as it looks.
Re: A Woman’s Story
#144IQ is very biased depending on the environment you grew up.if u grew up in zimbabwe or a country with high literacy levels the iq tests will be just too easy.
Re: A Woman’s Story
#145The idea that some race have low IQ because of their race shows how low your IQ is and you ability to think outside box.
Re: A Woman’s Story
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That's because in the past, the IQ tests were not fair, objective and colour-blind, but were set up in such a way as to bias against poorer people (which will be mostly black in the USA). This isn't true at all. They haven't been shown to be biased, merely that blacks score lower. Extensive research has show that IQ tests have equal predictive power for blacks and whites. "Disparate impact" merely means that blacks…
> This isn't true at all. They haven't been shown to be biased, merely that blacks score lower. Extensive research has show that IQ tests have equal predictive power for blacks and whites. I think you illustrate the danger of making assertions without being entirely informed - that is to say that what you state here is the beginning of the truth, but taken out of context. There was (and in many cases still is) a heav…
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Re: A Woman’s Story
#147There were a lot of questions about numbers such as guessing the next number in a sequence. There were some logic puzzles, the kind where you have to figure out that it’s the baker who rides a bicycle and the mechanic who lives in the house with a red door. There were some strange questions where she was given a sketch of a three dimensional figure such as a cube with some missing pieces, and she had to guess which s…
At risk of sounding like a sore loser, IQ tests, whether or not they are bias, are not a good indicator of success (in fact, I'd question it's ability to measure "intelligence" or "potential"). Scoring well on an IQ test does not mean you will be successful at your job. It does not measure your willingness to learn. It does not measure your ability to retain information. It does not measure your reception to criticis…
At risk of sounding like a sore loser, IQ tests, whether or not they are bias, are not a good indicator of success
I wondered if this was actually true, so I did some digging. I'm not saying you're wrong, but here's a fairly recent (in academic time) overview of the research:
Murphy, K. R. (2002). Can Conflicting Perspectives on the Role of g in Personnel Selection Be Resolved?. Human Performance, 15(1/2), 173-186
There's a lot of evidence that "measures of general cognitive ability represent perhaps the best predictors of performance".
But the problem is that "racial differences in cognitive ability test scores are known to be considerably larger than racial differences in measures of job performance."
Murphy concludes that "reliance on cognitive ability measures in selection is likely to lead to more efficiency (i.e., higher average performance) and less equity (e.g., disparities in selection rates across racial and ethnic groups)."
--
As such, I think giving someone an IQ test at a job interview is a fairly bad idea.
The research I've found suggests otherwise, provided those IQ tests aren't the sole means of making decisions.
Re: A Woman’s Story
#148There are a lot of stories lately of women not taken for intelligent or made fun of, but I don't see that happen here at all.
Recalling from a previous news item, a women said that men always told her to "lighten up" (assuming that means something along the lines "don't whine, I didn't mean it that seriously", it doesn't translate). Well either I'm one of the bastards, or the culture is different here. It appears here we, men and women, have a lot of... liberties I guess you could say.
Looking at the list of countries allowing gay marriage lately, I was surprised to see the Netherlands listed as one of just a few. I once read a quote, "Mom, why do those two women hold hands? - Because they love each other.". I didn't get why it was upvoted at all (site similar to bash.org, don't remember which though). It seems rather obvious to me, like a girl asks her mother why a man and a woman hold hands. Now that I've learned that gay marriage is not actually that common, I get the point.
Is this true for (black) women in America too? I don't get the impression the USA is 'behind', but reading these stories you'd almost think it is. Of course, this particular one is a story from many years ago and either way a good read. But still, it is one of many last days which make it to the front page, covering pretty much the same subject.
I'm not saying people should stop posting or upvoting them, nor do I intend to offend anyone or any country. I'm just wondering aloud what the motivation is behind posting and upvoting these stories.
Re: A Woman’s Story
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
"They haven't been shown to be biased" When I think about that question, I think about questions that would be harder for me (white caucasian) than somebody from another "race" or culture. That is easy: for example imagine selecting some kind of image puzzles involving kanjii symbols, or telling apart chinese faces. They are just images, right, so no bias? But it will be much more easy to tell them apart for somebody…
If you have the time, I'd be curious to know your answers to the following (95% confidence intervals if you want): 1. how many seconds did it take you to think up this refutation of IQ tests? 2. how many psychologist/psychometrician man-years do you estimate go into developing any particular IQ test like the RAPM or BOMAT? 3. what probability do you give that psychometricians have not also thought of your objection?…
It was several years ago (15), but I actually took the time to read "the Bell Curve" and even to find some of the actual twin studies that tend to be cited in the discussions. Those I found rather underwhelming - for example the sample sizes tend to be low and not very comparable, and sometimes they are clearly exaggerated. For example one mentioned twins who gave their kids the same names and wore the same clothes even though they didn't know each other.
Over the years I have read a lot of articles on the subject - as did many others, I guess, it is a popular subject after all.
I'd say it took me more than a few seconds to come up with my example.
Re: A Woman’s Story
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
she would constantly feel like a fraud, Nonsense. Americans today are trained from a young age to have a sense of entitlement. People who are promoted above their ability are quite capable of blaming their inability to perform on prejudice or conspiracy on the part of peers or subordinates.
Women in computing constantly feel like frauds.
I'm not sure why I'm getting down voted. It's the truth. Most women are made to feel like they don't belong in computing. I convinced my girlfriend to major in Computer Science in school and she's constantly telling me how she faked her way through school. She feels like the only reason she got through it is because I helped her.
The reason she got through it is because she was smart. I didn't help her with her exams and I didn't help her land her job at Amazon. That was all her.
Cheryl Sandberg, the COO of Facebook gave a talk at the Grace Hopper conference about how she felt like a fraud. She wasn't as technical as the engineers so she didn't feel like she deserved her position. Turns out she's really good at her job.
Lots of women feel this way.