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Why You Don't Need A Programmer
61–70 of 105 posts
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alright, let's say that business founder gets $60k in seed funding. Would a technical cofounder expect that $60k as salary or towards some specific asset for the company? I don't think that $60k of seed funding is what stands between a businessman with his idea and success.
I would think he would invest the $60k towards things needed to make his idea into a business. For an internet company, software development is going to be a major component, although there are others, like design. Point is, there are people structured to accept risk. These people include investors and entrepreneurs. There are other people who provide services that businesses need, including designers, lawyers, progr…
I think the notion of programmer/investors, as you put it, is mostly wishful thinking fueled by a basic lack of experience. Until people get burned, they don't realize that what you can get for $1500 on elance.com will, when it fails, end up costing you more than what you'd get for $15k from a skilled developer. If you flip the equation, you could say it's the clients who are naive until they've actually managed developers a few times and seen what they can expect for their money.
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#63I used to be of the opinion that the technical people did all the hard work and hence they should get the majority of the equity. However, once I tried to do everything myself I realised that the technical side was only one piece of the puzzle. Business, design and marketing may not be as intellectual as programming but they are no less hard and often more important. I really think that if two people are involved, th…
The problem is that, often times, much of the technical work is front-loaded, leaving most of the initial risk disproportionately in the technical person's lap. It's only after an MVP is built that the business side of the operation has to perform. Equity split should reflect the assumed risk.
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#64Why do the technical people always seem to get the short end of the stick? I have people approaching me on a monthly basis with their 'great idea' and 'all I need is someone to code it', and compensation varies from 'money when it gets big' all the way up to a very enticing 20% equity. After working on a few of these I now ask for cash up front, no equity. I have plenty of my own ideas and not enough time to work on…
Heck as far as I can see I can't see the value of the business person at all, except for whatever connections he has. Now I am biased, but why would one go into a partnership with a business person in the first place.
"business person" is very broad. Same as "programmer". In each group there are wide differences in abilities. Certainly if you're good at anything (boating, photography, skiing, programming) you've had people who don't know anything about those things think you are the "expert".
The right business person can be a tremendous benefit. The wrong one can kill your business. Obviously it all depends.
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#65To the biz guys here who might think that we're unicorns, I'd like to point out that there are definitely people out there who are very technical and would love to co-found with someone more business-oriented.
We generally have simple conditions for that to work: - you have to respect our work, because for us it's an art form and a craft, although we do realize that creating business value comes first. We spend decades refining this craft and want to take pride in every line of code (even though it might not always be possible). - We are concerned that you will treat us like codemonkeys and it will be a PBH-like relationship, where you'll be asking us for status every day, while doing little to no work yourself. You won't be able to code and optimize a large scale distributed system no matter how hard you try. I can most likely figure out whatever it is that you do with a bit of time and elbow grease. However, I'd still much rather work on the product, which is where you come in. - We're also concerned that you will not understand anything about how software works, and will still insist on having a large say in the day-to-day engineering. You'll need to pick one, either you learn fast about how things work and contribute bit by bit, or you let us run the show where you're not the domain expert.
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#66I liked this piece. I'm a designer, not a programmer, but I a lot in this piece would resonate with designers as well. So many times I have been asked to illustrate or design something, in exchange for "exposure" - "how great this opportunity is to get your design out there." One thing that I disagree on this piece is that I don't think there is a specific formula: that "you need" a technical co-founder and a busines…
Also depends on the particular idea and what you are trying to do. It is entirely possible to start a business, hire someone to do the "programming" and make yourself a nice living. Not every idea needs to knock it out of the park and result in multi millions. And as everyone knows most will not.
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#67To the biz guys here who might think that we're unicorns, I'd like to point out that there are definitely people out there who are very technical and would love to co-found with someone more business-oriented. We generally have simple conditions for that to work: - you have to respect our work, because for us it's an art form and a craft, although we do realize that creating business value comes first. We spend decad…
"while doing little to no work yourself. "
Why that assumption?
Added:
"I can most likely figure out whatever it is that you do with a bit of time and elbow grease."
Have you? Or are you just assuming that as well?
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#68If someone hires me to write something for them I write that for them, if they ask me for advice I give them advice. I don't get into arguments about how their idea won't work, or call them 'stupid', I charge them my rate for the work they ask me to do and I thank them when they pay me. You think the guys at the general store in 1849 told the gold prospectors that they were stupid and would lose their money? Or do yo…
That's not the point of the post. The OP is saying that a lot of would-be entrepreneurs are vastly underestimating the amount of work involved in creating the actual software, and that the would-be entrepreneurs need a technical cofounder rather than an employed programmer. To use your analogy, this would be more like the store owners telling the prospectors, correctly, that they would also need to find legal help to…
"and that the would-be entrepreneurs need a technical cofounder"
Part of the problem with this idea (as someone else commented "goes around like a windmill") is that a non-technical person is even in a position to judge the skills of a technical person (or vice versa).
At least if you hire a programmer you can fire a programmer. If you take on the wrong co-founder (who doesn't have the ability or skills you thought they had) then what do you do?
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#69To the biz guys here who might think that we're unicorns, I'd like to point out that there are definitely people out there who are very technical and would love to co-found with someone more business-oriented. We generally have simple conditions for that to work: - you have to respect our work, because for us it's an art form and a craft, although we do realize that creating business value comes first. We spend decad…
"while doing little to no work yourself. " Why that assumption? Added: "I can most likely figure out whatever it is that you do with a bit of time and elbow grease." Have you? Or are you just assuming that as well?
Regarding the first question, I have been burned before by non-technical co-founders who turned the project into their own little "I want to learn how to program" experiment, while spending zero to no time actually hustling, talking to people, getting feedback, finding more early adopters, engineering requirements and so on. I have learned to be a better judge of character through that experience, and am much pickier now.
About the second one, I was actually paraphrasing something I heard Max Levchin state at one of his talks years ago. Not sure how much it's worth, given his partnership with Thiel.
Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
"while doing little to no work yourself. " Why that assumption? Added: "I can most likely figure out whatever it is that you do with a bit of time and elbow grease." Have you? Or are you just assuming that as well?
Regarding the first question, I have been burned before by non-technical co-founders who turned the project into their own little "I want to learn how to program" experiment, while spending zero to no time actually hustling, talking to people, getting feedback, finding more early adopters, engineering requirements and so on. I have learned to be a better judge of character through that experience, and am much pickier…
I have another possible explanation for that first question, and I am making the assumption that I'm not the only person that has had to work on not feeling this way:
Even though we really shouldn't feel this way, a lot of us developer sorts wrestle with the idea that we're the only ones ever really working, specifically in the pure development phase of a project.
Granted, I'm sure everybody feels that way at least once during a given venture. I've forced myself to stop thinking that way, but it seems a fairly human thing to think.