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Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

nltimes.nl

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Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#181

Post by dagw »

mcv wrote: post #154
dagw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current petrol engines are designed operate at optimal efficiency in the 60-90 km/h range. Electric cars on the other hand can operate efficiently at much lower speeds due to how electric engines work. Efficiency here primarily refers to km/unit of energy. So if you care about minimising pollution in the city centres it's much better if all cars can drive either 70 km/h or not at all through city centres.

ICE cars tend to have gears, and can drive very well in lower gears. You don't want to do 30 in 4th gear.

Look up the efficiency curve for you engine. To get the most of it you should be driving at the highest gear at around 70-90 km/h. Driving in lower gears is obviously not a problem, but that doesn't make it efficient.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#182

Post by lamontcg »

mcv wrote: post #4

The title makes it sound like streets in Amsterdam currently don't have a 30 km/h speed limit, and after December, they will all have a 30 km/h speed limit. The reality is that a lot of streets already have a 30 km/h speed limit, and have had them for years. It's been slowly expanding, and clearly will continue to expand even more. There will still be roads with higher speed limits, but their number will shrink. I ex…

Seattle did this a few years ago, but without bothering to do much of any of the rest of the infrastructure changes. Without enforcement, the speed limits largely just get ignored. If we had enforcement, you can bet it would immediately become a selective enforcement issue.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#183

Post by turquoisevar »

badcppdev wrote: post #52

I think it's really funny how humans can't help but use round numbers. 30 kph = 18.64 mph 20 mph = 32.19 kph So safety rules around the world are based on arbitrary length systems. I'm all for lower speed limits for safety but I feel there is still things to be worked out in suburban settings where long arterial(?) roads carry large amounts of traffic in large cities.

It’s almost as if it’s based on what can be easily gleaned from a speedometer on the dashboard.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#185

Post by turquoisevar »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #88
irdc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious. Seeing as the social democratic[0] PvdA is currently the largest political party in the Amsterdam city council[1], with the greens a close second, that's all in line with what the people of Amsterdam want. This is Europe. Socialism isn't a scare word here. If anything, it's a rallying cry. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy 1. https://en.wikipedia…

Maybe you should ask some older eastern Europeans what they think about socialism, before haughtily speaking for everyone who lives in Europe. Socialism and its national variant wrecked Europe in the 20th century. People celebrated when it ended. To call it a rallying cry given that history is quite gross.

I’m old enough to remember when people called what you’re referring to “communism”, similar to how one might call the Democratic People's Republic of Korea “democratic”.

It seems that now, based on your comment, it’s in vogue to call it socialism.

At this rate, in a few years it’ll be called democratic socialism and not long after it’ll be called social democracy.

I guess you gotta keep that Overton window moving.

As an aside, what is often overlooked when someone brings up the point you do, is that communist nostalgia[0] is a real thing.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_nostalgia

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#186

Post by marssaxman »

mcv wrote: post #4

The title makes it sound like streets in Amsterdam currently don't have a 30 km/h speed limit, and after December, they will all have a 30 km/h speed limit. The reality is that a lot of streets already have a 30 km/h speed limit, and have had them for years. It's been slowly expanding, and clearly will continue to expand even more. There will still be roads with higher speed limits, but their number will shrink. I ex…

Does changing the number on the sign actually cause the cars to move more slowly, in Amsterdam? That's not been the case where I've seen it done here in Seattle; people simply drive as fast as the road design makes it comfortable to drive.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#187

Post by phanimahesh »

pakitan wrote: post #104
mcv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is by far the biggest reason for the preference for 30 km/h. Reduced noise and pollution are certainly nice, but killing far less people is huge.

Why not reduce speed to 10km/h then? Even fewer people will be killed! This is the covid logic all over again. Let's lock everyone in their homes, we can't afford to have old people dying! Also, no, ICE cars generally don't pollute less at 30km/h, compared to 50km/h. Engine does the same work, just at lower gear.

Let's make it so that cars don't have to dictate peoples movements so that people won't feel personally attacked by regulations slowing card around pedestrians, kids, and elderly in residential areas.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#188

Post by Muromec »

shortcake27 wrote: post #157
nvm0n2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should ask some older eastern Europeans what they think about socialism, before haughtily speaking for everyone who lives in Europe. Socialism and its national variant wrecked Europe in the 20th century. People celebrated when it ended. To call it a rallying cry given that history is quite gross.

This argument is often brought up as “proof” that socialism doesn’t work, yet completely ignores the reality of late-stage capitalism. Of course boomers love capitalism when in the 60s a factory worker could easily pay off a huge house, two brand new cars every 3 years, and support a family of 5 on a single income. But that isn’t capitalism today. Young people are working themselves into the ground just to share a ro…

>Of course boomers love capitalism when in the 60s a factory worker could easily pay off a huge house, two brand new cars every 3 years, and support a family of 5 on a single income.

Guess what, the same generation born in ussr (mostly urban and either russian or conformist enough to benefit from the system) liked the system too, while it worked. Hell, who would not like state-provided housing, public transport childcare and all the nice things, while they last, even if the system as whole isn't sustainble enough.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#190

Post by matsemann »

pakitan wrote: post #180
matsemann wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see the graph in my comment? There's a steep curve beginning a bit over 30 km/h. Hence great impact per km/h reduction at those higher speeds. Not as much when going even even lower. Most people don't think in extremes, and are actually capable to think of the various tradeoffs. No need to be so hyperbolic.. I'd like some streets to be 20 km/h as well, though. But that is because those streets should be for p…

I saw the graph. It's probably crap, given that there is 5% death rate at 0km/h but let's take it at face value and let's say we implement 30km/h limit. Then there will inevitably be people claiming "death rate can be reduced by another 40% if we were just responsible enough to reduce the limit even further, to 10km/h". That's not hyperbole, that's exactly the way events unfolded near the end of the covid epidemic. U…

At ~0km/h kids are unfortunately still dying, mainly being backed over by their own family.

The rest of your argument is basically a slippery slope fallacy and not even close to what's happening in any urban planning discussion I've ever been a part of. And I'm on the board of an organization discussing these things.

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