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How China's “debt traps” work

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Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#51

Post by ilickpoolalgae »

csomar wrote: post #48

I've recently rode through a Belt&Road project: The Lao high-speed train. In my opinion, it shows the complete failure of the Chinese government. The high-speed train is a reasonably great train that goes through dozens (hundreds?) of mountains and rivers (through tunnels and bridges). It does that while enabling you to work from the comfort of your chair. And while it's not high-speed (as in 300Km/h), it is reasonab…

I'm not sure if it's comparable, but the Japanese Shinkansen had similar issues when it's first built. A lot of the stations didn't go through the existing central stations due to costs and other logistical problems. This is why there are a lot of stations that the Shinkansen goes through that are called "Shin-XXX" (e.g. Shin Osaka). During a period of fast economic growth this isn't a big issue because the areas around these stations quickly become hubs or alternative downtown areas of their own. Now, I don't know if this will happen to CN but it is a somewhat repeatable outcome of building important railroad hubs in newly developed areas.

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#52

Post by archgoon »

jhp123 wrote: post #41
sickofparadox wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the US is widely known for repossessing airports[1], seaports[2], and railways[3], then displacing local workers by flying in your own people. That totally happens all the time - its just that US biased media hiding it from you. The era of this kind of lazy anti-Westernism is over, China is only out for itself, and it will drag countries into its sphere of influence any way it can. "But what about this ame…

US Imperialism is even more brazen than that. Here's a video of the US President commenting on how US troops are in Syria "only for the oil": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U10p3Tn9V5Y

[dead]

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#53

Post by colordrops »

csomar wrote: post #48

I've recently rode through a Belt&Road project: The Lao high-speed train. In my opinion, it shows the complete failure of the Chinese government. The high-speed train is a reasonably great train that goes through dozens (hundreds?) of mountains and rivers (through tunnels and bridges). It does that while enabling you to work from the comfort of your chair. And while it's not high-speed (as in 300Km/h), it is reasonab…

[flagged]

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#54

Post by csomar »

ilickpoolalgae wrote: post #51
csomar wrote: post #48

I've recently rode through a Belt&Road project: The Lao high-speed train. In my opinion, it shows the complete failure of the Chinese government. The high-speed train is a reasonably great train that goes through dozens (hundreds?) of mountains and rivers (through tunnels and bridges). It does that while enabling you to work from the comfort of your chair. And while it's not high-speed (as in 300Km/h), it is reasonab…

I'm not sure if it's comparable, but the Japanese Shinkansen had similar issues when it's first built. A lot of the stations didn't go through the existing central stations due to costs and other logistical problems. This is why there are a lot of stations that the Shinkansen goes through that are called "Shin-XXX" (e.g. Shin Osaka). During a period of fast economic growth this isn't a big issue because the areas aro…

I don't think this is a problem for CN because in China, you can take the subway after getting off the train. It's okay to have the station afar from the center. This is the not case with Laos but I don't think the people planning that really cared.

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#55

Post by [deleted] »

hackandthink wrote: post #10

"David Graeber: Oh, absolutely. After all, the alter-globalization movement grew out of a broad global reaction to the Washington consensus, which was never any sort of consensus, but rather, a vision of the world forcibly imposed on the global South through the third world debt crisis. I was involved in “drop the debt” campaigns of various sorts since at least 2000. What got me interested in some of the philosophica…

[deleted]

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#56

Post by stickfigure »

jhp123 wrote: post #41
sickofparadox wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the US is widely known for repossessing airports[1], seaports[2], and railways[3], then displacing local workers by flying in your own people. That totally happens all the time - its just that US biased media hiding it from you. The era of this kind of lazy anti-Westernism is over, China is only out for itself, and it will drag countries into its sphere of influence any way it can. "But what about this ame…

US Imperialism is even more brazen than that. Here's a video of the US President commenting on how US troops are in Syria "only for the oil": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U10p3Tn9V5Y

This is the same guy who suggested injecting disinfectant or "bringing light inside the body" to cure covid. He also continues to lie about his election loss in a desperate attempt to cling to power. Trump is shameful, but he doesn't represent the long history of the US.

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#57

Post by csomar »

colordrops wrote: post #53
csomar wrote: post #48

I've recently rode through a Belt&Road project: The Lao high-speed train. In my opinion, it shows the complete failure of the Chinese government. The high-speed train is a reasonably great train that goes through dozens (hundreds?) of mountains and rivers (through tunnels and bridges). It does that while enabling you to work from the comfort of your chair. And while it's not high-speed (as in 300Km/h), it is reasonab…

[flagged]

Except your productive components are what makes these guns. There is probably a certain balance or exchange of power that we do not understand. Or maybe China is on the cusp of an upheaval but because of its size its revolution happens on a longer time frame that we do not understand.

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#58

Post by chx »

colordrops wrote: post #53
csomar wrote: post #48

I've recently rode through a Belt&Road project: The Lao high-speed train. In my opinion, it shows the complete failure of the Chinese government. The high-speed train is a reasonably great train that goes through dozens (hundreds?) of mountains and rivers (through tunnels and bridges). It does that while enabling you to work from the comfort of your chair. And while it's not high-speed (as in 300Km/h), it is reasonab…

[flagged]

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" well yes.

I am curious why you chose to write this in Chinese which most people here won't understand.

Might makes right or might is right is a closely related phrase, too.

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#59

Post by jessepasley »

csomar wrote: post #48

I've recently rode through a Belt&Road project: The Lao high-speed train. In my opinion, it shows the complete failure of the Chinese government. The high-speed train is a reasonably great train that goes through dozens (hundreds?) of mountains and rivers (through tunnels and bridges). It does that while enabling you to work from the comfort of your chair. And while it's not high-speed (as in 300Km/h), it is reasonab…

I had the same opinion when taking high speed train for the first time in China. Many stations seemed to be far away from anything and there was a lot of process when you get to the station. That's not the case now as all of those areas have sprung up, along with convenient transportation via subway/metro to the places you'd want to get to. You can also board the train quickly now.

I'm not sure if that makes sense for Laos, but for China it seemed to work pretty well.

Re: How China's “debt traps” work

#60

Post by ypeterholmes »

gruez wrote: post #14
teekert wrote: post #11

I guess the Chinese also read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins.

Except if you read the article it's arguing that the opposite happened. >Note that although this is a debt trap, it isn’t really a case of “debt-trap diplomacy”, as some people accuse. Debt-trap diplomacy is where you get a country to owe you money, and you force it to make geopolitical concessions in exchange for loan forbearance. China doesn’t appear to be doing that; instead it appears to simply be walking away wi…

They ended up with ownership of a port and a lot more though. The point of the article is that they are being short-sighted by angering everyone, but you saying that they did the opposite of predatory lending is wrong. It was absolutely predatory lending, just not well executed.
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