Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's absolutely silly for the RTO people to force their preferences on everyone. The fact that RTO folks only consider it a win if everyone comes back, rather than trying to build out flexibile working conditions that make everyone happy, is the real problem. People who want an office to work in are just as valid as people who want to work from home. It's the people who want to force RTO on everyone that are real ass…
The thing is that there is no arrangement that works for everyone. Sure, those who just want a physical office space instead of their home will probably be ok collaborating remotely, but the others want to collaborate in person, and that requires everyone to be at the same place. Flexible conditions which make everyone happy is going to the office to spend large amount of time on video calls in cramped call booth - n…
Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
641–650 of 913 posts
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#642This is a classic HN post that will get a lot of positive attention here playing into the HN cognitive bias zeitgeist, but I think is mostly bullshit. The market will settle it in the end, but at least for startups being colocated is a competitive advantage.
I disagree. Colocation isn't the competitive advantage for startups. Strong communication is. You can get part of this for 'free' if you shove everyone in a room. You can also get this if you invest in strong remote culture that encourages lots of remote collaboration. Source: I've been at a remote-first startup that is kicking ass over the last two years. In-office is available but remains entirely optional.
In theory you can resolve this (I'm at a remote company now and think gathertown is a great tool for this), but the lift is high and I suspect the majority of remote companies are operating at a net negative vs. colocation because of this.
Even with these tools, some natural amount of human communication/interaction is lost. It mostly hurts spontaneous collaboration and junior engineers - the threshold for these (comms/collab) is higher than in the office even in ideal remote conditions. Normal human team bonding/relationship building stuff is also lost (and useful for building a high performance culture).
This is also assuming you're at least within mostly the same or close timezones, add that into the mix and it gets even worse.
Other people replying don't understand what I mean by the market solving this. If remote is truly advantageous then startups that are remote first should out compete those that aren't. Empirically this appears to not be true and at least in SF and AI (the sector with the largest return likely in the next decade) people are going back to being colocated because of its advantages (primarily around communication and cycle times).
Mostly I see motivated reasoning primarily as the argument in favor of remote being better. I get it, I work remotely - there are nice quality of life advantages, but I still think it's competitively worse for companies in almost all cases.
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#643Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…
My issue with every piece of commercial software I’ve used is the lag. Slack, Google Meet, Zoom… All have noticeable delay which make conversation unnatural and painful. I’ve been using FaceTime Audio to communicate with family on the other side of the world and it’s incredible. Zero latency and great audio quality. It’s an extremely underrated piece of tech. Not sure about FaceTime video as I’ve never used it, but I…
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#644This comes up a lot around here in discussions about uncomfortable employer decisions.
The H-1B visa is certainly restrictive, but it is by no means the indentured-servitude visa that people make it out to be.
I’ve hired a fantastic employee who was at the time in the US on an H-1B visa. The process was straightforward. I was at a small startup at the time, so we didn’t have a big hiring team to lean on or anything. There was some friction — we needed to do more paperwork, and that pushed things out by maybe a week or two. And we had to pay lawyers and some filing fees — perhaps $10-15k. Which isn’t nothing, but also is fine if you get a great employee out of the deal.
My understanding of the H-1B visa is that it requires that the visa holder maintains a job matching there description that the visa was issued for, and in the case of a job loss, the visa holder has a (painfully short) 6 weeks to find new employment. So, stressful for sure, but workable, especially with a little planning, as this article suggested in any case.
The L-1, in contrast is (mostly) non-transferable, and the limited transfer options require the original employer to initiate.
I bring this up not to dismiss the stress imposed by the 6-week H-1B unemployment scramble, but rather to remind everyone here (employers and employees alike) that H-1B status doesn’t impose all that much of a hurdle. If you are in the US on one, don’t hold back from applying for new jobs! If you’re hiring, don’t be afraid if you see that a candidate is in the US on a H-1B!
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#645Inflation does not work that way!
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#646There are so many “habits” left over from industrial work. On an assembly line everyone needed to be in sync but this generally isn’t true for most office work. You need to be present at the factory to do the work, hasn’t been true for office work for awhile now. Yet we still operate synchronously. Everyone commutes through traffic/crowded public transport and risk catching the latest novel virus, to arrive at work a…
Apropos username.
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#647Spare me. If someone is willing to pay someone $500k per year as I’m sure someone like the author is able to get, if the CEO wants them in the office three days a week, so be it. It’s stupid, everyone knows it’s stupid, I agree with the author on that, but tech workers sound _incredibly_ entitled when they write pieces like this. There are people making 1/5th what the author is making and somehow surviving in VHCOL a…
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#648And I suspect this is exactly what the managers want: Decrease headcount and decrease average salaries to make the company look good next quarter. That's what they get rewarded for. They don't get penalized for decreasing the collective talent or productivity of the company in the long term; they get rewarded for decreasing costs in the short term. So that's what they're going to do in the guise of an RTO policy.
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#649How few people in history have been able to travel to exotic places or visit far-off friends and family, while still making decent money, and do this almost as much as they want (supposing lifestyle and relationships that allow this, which is true for many people). I mean, people in tech who vacation in tropical climes then spend cherished time with parents and siblings and friends living thousands of miles away, and don't worry about running out their vacation time: dozens of weeks of cherished traveling, if that's what you want! Along the way developing fundamentally different types of family relationships or accruing worldly sophistication.
Forget about little medical or technological things that mark a break from the past: lots of people can afford tylenol and iPhones and Spotify. This is a class marker of epic proportion. This is a way of life that Tolstoy ascribed to the very wealthiest of Moscow's aristocratic families and bachelors (most certainly not even all of the aristocratic class).
Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It
#650Earlier quoted context omitted.
I enjoyed the flexibility of WFH but I still prefer working with local teams in the office. There are pros and cons to both, but it's silly to assume everyone has the same preference as you just because your preference is strongly held. This is my response to both your comment and TFA. There is less consensus on this topic than the very-vocal WFH crowd would have you believe. I know plenty of other talented engineers…
It's absolutely silly for the RTO people to force their preferences on everyone. The fact that RTO folks only consider it a win if everyone comes back, rather than trying to build out flexibile working conditions that make everyone happy, is the real problem. People who want an office to work in are just as valid as people who want to work from home. It's the people who want to force RTO on everyone that are real ass…