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Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

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Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#141

Post by otoburb »

itg wrote: post #7

I don't follow the logic the author is using. Let's say we make all public colleges free for students. "Elite" schools will still exist, and top students will still target schools such as Ivy/MIT/Stanford/etc. One look at the people in executive offices or top political offices and you'll find a substantial portion are graduates from elite schools.

>>I don't follow the logic the author is using.

The article argues that public colleges being free "[...] will alleviate the student debt crisis and enable low-income students, particularly those of color, to go to college."

Your point about elite schools still existing can (and will) be true at the same time in this hypothetical universe where US public college tuition is free.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#142

Post by dbrueck »

I agree with the 'stop arguing over elite schools' bit. To me, elite schools look like a huge waste of money and I urge anyone considering an elite school to study the law of diminishing returns. To other people, going to such a school is absolutely worth it and crucial to their life plan.

Let them charge what the market will bear and let them accept students within the same framework that any other business follows when determining what customers to work with.

Part of what makes so-called elite schools elite is scarcity, so even if you completely rewrote how they operate, the number of actual students affected would be too small to move the needle anyway.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#143

Post by cma »

DrThunder wrote: post #123

Do you realize how "free college" works in other nations? Not everyone gets to go. In places like Germany you're put on a track when you're like middle school age and if you're not on the university track you do not get to attend college. IF we're going to start using tax dollars to full fund public higher ed then not everyone gets the chance to go like they do now. Maybe this is a better way of doing it but I can gu…

It is close to that in the US. In middle school you are put on an advanced/honors track and without it you won't get AP or other advanced classes in high-school. You can make all A's and won't be anywhere near the top of your class because A's in those advanced class are usually set up to count for more on your GPA.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#144

Post by toast0 »

latchkey wrote: post #126
toast0 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the argument is the US spends more on military than education, and we only look at federal numbers, it's an incomplete and misleading accounting. States spend a lot on education, and not a lot on state military. This article claims California's 2022-2023 budget includes $128 Billion for education [1]. For 2018-2019, the California Military Department budget was $233 Million [2]. If other states are similar (and I…

You're saying that we need to look at both federal and state levels of funding for both education and military. Sure, if that's the only way you can consider things. If you add it all up across the entire US, with your terms, which one gets more funding today, Education or Military? Regardless, this isn't a d/ck size competition. What I'm saying is that we prioritize too much on military and too little on education.…

I don't need to bring better numbers to say your numbers aren't meaningful. I don't have time to find all 53? budgets for the states, territorities, and such, and probably neither do you, that's fine.

If your point wasn't to compare sizes, why did you bring your numbers?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#145

Post by jonhohle »

Or perhaps we should stop pushing everyone to college and encourage those who have the aptitude to go into trades. Of the successful tradespeople I know, the only thing going to college would have done was delayed their entry into the workforce and saddle them with debt. Might they be able to run their businesses 10% more efficiently or grow twice as big had they had more business education? Probably, but there are far more businesses that succeed by being just the right size for the owner than there are hyper growth oriented, lean machines.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#146

Post by cscurmudgeon »

darth_avocado wrote: post #132
karaterobot wrote: post #46

> There’s the age-old question of how we pay for this. Sanders proposed a Wall Street financial transactions tax. A 0.1 percent tax, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate, could raise $777 billion over 10 years. Or we could hike taxes on corporations and the wealthiest Americans. I have no problem taxing wall street or "the wealthiest Americans", but I don't see the connection between this proposal and…

It’s not a partisan issue and politics should not even be involved. Other countries do it and it’s a no brainer. For example, India has a blanket education cess that individuals and corporations pay, and in return public education (school and college) is heavily subsidized (Schools are next to free). Everyone benefits from this investment and it’s mind boggling we still are fighting over this. https://cleartax.in/g/t…

Where do you think Indians (like me) move for higher education when given the opportunity.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#147

Post by mixmastamyk »

mseidl wrote: post #99
AmVess wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a problem with taxes in general, and this is yet another stupid idea. Increased tax loads always get passed on to the consumer. What we will end up with is higher cost of doing business and 100% for certain federally run universities will still need taxpayer bailouts every single year. Lose lose all the way around. I have an even better idea: get rid of all freebies. If someone wants something, they can get of…

In the 50s/60s/70s at minimum wage you used to be able to pay for a whole school year with 109 hours. Now, at minimum wage, just for 1 year is around 2250 hours. That's 13 months just to pay off 1 year of school, not including any living costs.

That’s a result of govt guaranteed student loans inflating tuition. Those need to be stopped first. Then we can have cheap public universities that cost only what is required. Shouldn’t be free as it is costly and won’t be appreciated. But definitely competitive to drive down prices.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#148

Post by ulrashida »

EA-3167 wrote: post #50
ulrashida wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please support this statement: "The US spends more on education than the military"? This view ( https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/agency ) suggests Defense spending is $1.1 trillion in 2023 while Department of Education funding is $208 billion.

The entire US military budget is federal, but most of the education budget comes from the states. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Importantly, I'm asking for the original commenter to clarify their position. I'm not comparing any sort of fruit at this point other than pointing out the disparity at the federal level.

Do you have figures comparing "all-in" funding for both defense and education at the state and federal levels?

From casual inspection of the points posted so far, it seems like a more correct statement is: "The United States, nationally, funds education at about the same level as defense." If correct, I'd argue the initial poster's comment is inaccurate.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#149

Post by jauntywundrkind »

jonhohle wrote: post #145

Or perhaps we should stop pushing everyone to college and encourage those who have the aptitude to go into trades. Of the successful tradespeople I know, the only thing going to college would have done was delayed their entry into the workforce and saddle them with debt. Might they be able to run their businesses 10% more efficiently or grow twice as big had they had more business education? Probably, but there are f…

I don't think it's fair or reasonable for only those from well off families to have the chance at college though. College access shouldn't be tied to ones socioeconomic background.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#150

Post by [deleted] »

jonhohle wrote: post #145

Or perhaps we should stop pushing everyone to college and encourage those who have the aptitude to go into trades. Of the successful tradespeople I know, the only thing going to college would have done was delayed their entry into the workforce and saddle them with debt. Might they be able to run their businesses 10% more efficiently or grow twice as big had they had more business education? Probably, but there are f…

[deleted]
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