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Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

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Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#91

Post by wwarner »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #29
itg wrote: post #7

I don't follow the logic the author is using. Let's say we make all public colleges free for students. "Elite" schools will still exist, and top students will still target schools such as Ivy/MIT/Stanford/etc. One look at the people in executive offices or top political offices and you'll find a substantial portion are graduates from elite schools.

The logic is that a good education is actually useful for the student outside of signaling membership in a zero-sum social elite.

Thanks for saying the obvious in a polite fashion. I started to write something out but realized I'd just cause offense. To me, it's obvious that a better educated society is a better society. We could actually go further and actually pay people to go to school.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#92

Post by munbun »

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #86

I've always had this crazy idea that we could make high school useful again. Run year round and provide more opportunities for swapping in college-level course work or actual college or trade school courses. This kind of opportunity would have allowed me to finish my education sooner, or at least enjoy it more. As it was, I worked full time every summer since I turned 16 and then 30+ hours a week while I was completi…

I honestly believe this is the best possible solution but grade school curriculum and funding being controlled by state legislatures is a real issue.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#94

Post by chaps »

karaterobot wrote: post #46

> There’s the age-old question of how we pay for this. Sanders proposed a Wall Street financial transactions tax. A 0.1 percent tax, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate, could raise $777 billion over 10 years. Or we could hike taxes on corporations and the wealthiest Americans. I have no problem taxing wall street or "the wealthiest Americans", but I don't see the connection between this proposal and…

An argument can be made that participating in the stock market and participating in post-HS education are participating in "peak society". Peak society arm 1 should lend a hand to peak society arm 2.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#95

Post by owenmarshall »

omginternets wrote: post #82
owenmarshall wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare capacity in the US is a function of your ability to pay for it. We contend with limited supply today, we just kick the limited supply to groups of people who by and large aren't posting on this website.

Yes... I agree. I'm not sure what your point is?

When I've heard this argument advanced before, it's had the subtext that "limited capacity is not a problem today but becomes one in other contexts"

I made the assumption that's what you were hinting at.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#96

Post by BobaFloutist »

omginternets wrote: post #14
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

Nothing is “free”. Sometimes the costs are hidden from most people. It’s like immigration. If you say, “anyone who comes here can’t be kicked out and you instantly get access to healthcare, food stamps, and free housing” then your maximum payout is the entire planet and you are bankrupt once people realize this. For public college to be free, I want to limit access, like happens in Europe. Sure college can be free… t…

It's telling that people aren't willing to contend with the corollary of "free education" and "free healthcare": limited capacity. Edit: I should probably mention that I'm generally in favor of state-funded education, for a variety of reasons.

Why does it work in other countries? I know we have a larger population, but surely that applies just as much to our ability to scale up supply as it does to the inherent increase in demand?

The United States is uniquely bad at covering the costs of health care and education, compared to its economic peers. Why is that?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#97

Post by latchkey »

toast0 wrote: post #52
latchkey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US spends more on education than the military "The US spent $877 billion on military in 2022, a new report says — more than 10 times federal education spending" https://www.businessinsider.com/us-defense-military-budget-c...

You'd need to consider the state military and education budgets as well.

You think that won't improve the argument?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#98

Post by kube-system »

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #69
superduty wrote: post #3

Teachers don’t work for free, nor do janitors or administrators. Building maintenance and leases aren’t free.

Does it cost you anything to call the police or the fire department? No- it's free to use. You know what it means; stop trying to muddy the waters with disingenuous arguments.

Yes, "free at the point of use" is what was meant, but for the record, emergency services are not universally free in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_response_fee

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#99

Post by mseidl »

AmVess wrote: post #78
karaterobot wrote: post #46

> There’s the age-old question of how we pay for this. Sanders proposed a Wall Street financial transactions tax. A 0.1 percent tax, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate, could raise $777 billion over 10 years. Or we could hike taxes on corporations and the wealthiest Americans. I have no problem taxing wall street or "the wealthiest Americans", but I don't see the connection between this proposal and…

I have a problem with taxes in general, and this is yet another stupid idea. Increased tax loads always get passed on to the consumer. What we will end up with is higher cost of doing business and 100% for certain federally run universities will still need taxpayer bailouts every single year. Lose lose all the way around. I have an even better idea: get rid of all freebies. If someone wants something, they can get of…

In the 50s/60s/70s at minimum wage you used to be able to pay for a whole school year with 109 hours. Now, at minimum wage, just for 1 year is around 2250 hours. That's 13 months just to pay off 1 year of school, not including any living costs.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#100

Post by danielmarkbruce »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #93

I’m amazed by how many people use the word “free” to mean “pay even more tax for the rest of your life.”

your is misused here. It's "free" for the person attending. I don't think many people are confused and think there is no cost or that it's not borne by taxpayers.
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