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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#241

Post by ghaff »

rwmj wrote: post #60
grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

Better cameras and microphones definitely help, but trying to get your company to pay for them can be another matter entirely.

And good enough ones are trivial expenses for pretty much any US software engineer.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#242

Post by jetcopter »

Whatarethese wrote: post #135
jetcopter wrote: post #115

While employers can ultimately do whatever they want, people hired remote prior to covid should remain remote. I think its sad when remote hires are caught up in the return to office drag net. These individuals were typically hired due to a lack of a local skill pool so the employer hired remote to find the talent. Its simply counter productive to try and make them move local and will result in the same problem event…

I know of some workers that were hired remotely in states that dont have offices that were then required to either move to an office or quit during the return to office.

Sounds like they are trying to make people quit to avoid layoffs/paying severance which is another dimension of this...

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#243

Post by yedava »

tgma wrote: post #116

Remote "work" is fine (with pros and cons). The problem is lots of people don't "work" remotely. Also, inevitably remote/async work flips the priority such that employee would be much more responsive to interrupts/errands of their own life than to focus their full attention on the employer's concerns.

> Also, inevitably remote/async work flips the priority such that employee would be much more responsive to interrupts/errands of their own life than to focus their full attention on the employer's concerns.

Which is how it should be. Life is a lot more than living for your employer.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#244

Post by KoolKat23 »

andrewmutz wrote: post #149
Two9A wrote: post #3

This is one aspect of the RTO discussion that's sometimes missed: there are plenty of people in the tech sphere (myself included) who've been comfortably remote for much longer than those who were pushed into remote work by lockdowns and pandemic response. We're not about to give up a whole lifestyle we've built over (in some cases) decades, on the whim of whichever executive we happen to be serving under at the pres…

Prior to COVID, everyone understood that remote work was supported by some companies and not others. It was also a type of work that was preferred by some employees and not others. As a result, everyone peacefully self-selected into their preferred employment relationships. Companies got the type of workforce they wanted and workers chose the type of environment they wanted. It was great. Today, as some companies are…

Times change and so should companies. It's also not unreasonable for people to expect more from their job than a simple transaction.

Before COVID, most places operated without tools such as Microsoft Teams and an assumption that remote work is untested and unproven to work in their setting. This is now not the case, and people are rightly questioning why a return is necessary. They've proven they can make it work and that they know what works, but are unjustifiably being told otherwise by people that don't actually know what works.

When the internet goes down, why aren't people simply just sending faxes? An example of pride in their work: Imagine being asked to work for a week on a project and once completed, being told to delete it without consideration because management irrationally decided to go a different direction before considering your project, you'd be understandably upset even though you were paid to do it.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#245

Post by ehsankia »

aidenn0 wrote: post #213

I prefer in-person work; I have great respect for those who were able to maintain their productivity when suddenly forced to WFH. It makes a great deal of sense for managers to check in with each employee for which remote is now the new normal. Perhaps either formalize the remote work as part of the job description or come up with a plan to return on a case-by-case basis. It's absolutely bonkers to force people who w…

I don't understand why both sides are getting screwed. Remote people are forced to come in, and on the other place, at many companies, people who do want to come to the office every single day are forced to hot swap desks.

Just let people do what they find the most productive and let their productivity speak for itself. If you can't properly measure productivity, then that's the issue you should focus on.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#246

Post by renewiltord »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #181
tschellenbach wrote: post #87

The discussion here tends to ignore the posts about people working multiple jobs or not working 40 hours a week remotely. Can't have your cake and eat it too

I really don’t understand this. If the company isn’t getting the productivity they expect, they should deal with that. If they can’t tell, what difference does it make?

It appears they are dealing with it by asking people to come in to the office.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#247

Post by sdfghswe »

CPLX wrote: post #46

I think Poe's Law applies here. I can't tell if this is satire of a prickly programmer with zero social skills or understanding of business context or an actual person. OK you want to work remote. Great, do that. Literally, it's great for you. Some people might not want that, some people might want to run companies where that doesn't happen. Don't work at those places. But then you get to gems like this: "If I had to…

Are you suggesting that they might not have social skills and send creepy text messages to female colleagues because they're a furry?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#248

Post by bsima »

strict9 wrote: post #26

>If I had to give only one bit of advice to anyone ever faced with an ultimatum from someone with power over them (be it an employer or abusive romantic partner), it would be: >Ultimately, never choose the one giving you an ultimatum. This is such great advice. When you are given an ultimatum it is very revealing. Pretend to comply as the author advises, then find something else. Your sense of self-worth is more valu…

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#249

Post by graypegg »

ramraj07 wrote: post #34

If I start a company tomorrow, this is what I would want to do: 1. Hire within a general metropolitan area (2 hour commute max). 2. WFH for 28 days a month. 3. 2 days a month the entire org convenes in a ballroom or something and works together, have some progress reports, happy hours and hackathons. In this model, everyone’s remote most of the time. Yet everyone gets FaceTime with each other IrL. Seed ideas and brai…

Honestly, as someone that actually likes in-office work, I would hate this. Nothing I care about with in-office will happen in those 2 days.

I like the fun of being able to just joke around with coworkers around you. I obviously don’t want to bother anyone that prefers uninterrupted focus though. The ability to choose WFH or office self selects for people like me to come in. Makes for a much more fun office environment post-COVID IMO.

Forcing everyone into the office, even for 2 days, means you’re going to have 75% of people just annoyed they have to come in for 2 days. What have you gained? Everyone is unhappy.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#250

Post by underlipton »

I recommend everyone involved in this discussion pick up a book called "The Overworked American" by Juliet Schor. It was released almost 3 decades ago, yet remains an eye-opening account of the history and current reality of "middle class" work patterns. There's a part early on about piece-work (which was done in the home, before and at the advent of automation), and I think readers will find the attitudes of the companies that employed these workers to be familiar to anyone fight RTO. Over a century later, the issue remains the same: NOT productivity, but control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Overworked_American

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