Just a reminder, free public college was the norm for a long time, and many people benefited from it before turning around and working hard to dismantle it. It's not some foreign concept. It's very much apart of America's history. The question we need to ask is whether it's a better system now than it was in the past, and I don't see anyone arguing that it's better now.
Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
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Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#12There will always be elite, private schools, and people will pay to go to them. If public universities are completely free, then it becomes a scarcity of resources, as each tries to stretch a dollar. This will mean those who can afford it will pay to go to elite institutions.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#13Who would oversea the spending of our taxes? There's no responsibility to provide a viable product currently because people are forced to pay and can't default on the loan if the product the college sold them wasn't variable to earning money to pay back the loan for payment college requested.
Think a world where colleges have to take more responsibility in making sure the loans they demand can by paid back would result in a better system where more people who leave actually end up earning amounts that justify what they loaned to go there.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#14Nothing is “free”. Sometimes the costs are hidden from most people. It’s like immigration. If you say, “anyone who comes here can’t be kicked out and you instantly get access to healthcare, food stamps, and free housing” then your maximum payout is the entire planet and you are bankrupt once people realize this. For public college to be free, I want to limit access, like happens in Europe. Sure college can be free… t…
It's telling that people aren't willing to contend with the corollary of "free education" and "free healthcare": limited capacity.
Edit: I should probably mention that I'm generally in favor of state-funded education, for a variety of reasons.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#15I don't believe even public colleges want this. They're raking in too much money, at this point.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#16Nothing is “free”. Sometimes the costs are hidden from most people. It’s like immigration. If you say, “anyone who comes here can’t be kicked out and you instantly get access to healthcare, food stamps, and free housing” then your maximum payout is the entire planet and you are bankrupt once people realize this. For public college to be free, I want to limit access, like happens in Europe. Sure college can be free… t…
> to the top N people in the state, with N being decided by the payers (i.e. democratic electorate).
I don't know how it works in the EU, but one issue I see with that it has the danger of permanently locking people who grow up with worse early/middle/high school education into their socioeconomic status, i.e. it would prevent social mobility for those with less resources. Unless public schooling standards prior to college are also improved, limiting higher education to "top N%" students ensures entrenched socioeconomic inequity. I think there is already enough class-based discontent, and making it worse via limiting (one of the few) means of social mobility wouldn't help, I think.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#17Teachers don’t work for free, nor do janitors or administrators. Building maintenance and leases aren’t free.
How exactly do you think taxes are used?
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#18Nothing is “free”. Sometimes the costs are hidden from most people. It’s like immigration. If you say, “anyone who comes here can’t be kicked out and you instantly get access to healthcare, food stamps, and free housing” then your maximum payout is the entire planet and you are bankrupt once people realize this. For public college to be free, I want to limit access, like happens in Europe. Sure college can be free… t…
Honest question, do you have a college degree, and do you think the majority of the population being generally educated is actually a bad thing?
I can understand the reaction to the cost, and many people work outside of the degree they majored in, but I do value the general education of the population. It’s been a remarkably uplifting force in society, if you look back over history.
I also wonder what that means for the competition between nations, it seems like the countries that I think are doing well really lean in to general education of their populations.
I came to college a different way, I went into the Marines first and only attended college after that. I didn’t live in the dorm and didn’t have a traditional college experience, but I am glad every day that I didn’t just have engineering classes.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#19A nearly content-free article. The idea is not new, and little data is offered to support it.
The success criteria seems to be "enrollment", which leaves a lot of room for things to go wrong. No downsides are mentioned aside from cost, which is dismissed with a tax that sounds like free money.
Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free
#20I don't follow the logic the author is using. Let's say we make all public colleges free for students. "Elite" schools will still exist, and top students will still target schools such as Ivy/MIT/Stanford/etc. One look at the people in executive offices or top political offices and you'll find a substantial portion are graduates from elite schools.
Agreed, and if anything what the author proposes would intensify the competition to get into those elite schools, for it would simultaneously increase the worth of a diploma from an elite school and devalue the diploma from the public college.