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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#101

Post by Yizahi »

grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

Video conf indeed sucks sometimes. That's when that "video" part is mandated. Actual work meetings where people look at someone presenting something or simply listening in background and working meanwhile are just fine. As long as some lowest rung PM is not mandating turning on cameras, "video" conf is great :)

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#102

Post by mgraczyk »

mertd wrote: post #58
grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

> Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Google. It was good even before the pandemic. We used to video call each other between buildings 100 feet apart instead of walking over.

I worked at Google for 4.5 years. If you are video calling into a meeting from MTV where other people in MTV are in person, you are probably not doing real work. It's not seamless and it's orders of magnitude less productive. Meetings take longer and rarely produce useful follow-ups if you're remote.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#103

Post by BigRedDog1669 »

rwmj wrote: post #36

> definitely don’t accept any relocation assistance (since you’ll have to return it when you split) Is this true? I've never heard of conditional assistance like this.

I've received relocation assistance and signing bonuses where it was stated I would need to return if I left within a certain time (a year I think)

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#105

Post by fullshark »

grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

> I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and office all the time.

Nah employers paying out of pocket makes so much more sense for this arrangement, just pay the remote worker less and make it clear they need to come in for one week a month. It's basically the same thing.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#106

Post by lxe »

I was wondering why remote work didn't become the golden standard even in the 2000s.

Imagine fully-remote Internet dot-com era companies that don't require any hardware, can hire from anywhere in the country or the world, don't need any real estate investment, and can pass the savings onto competitively hiring best talent.

There hasn't been any compelling reason for most internet-only companies like yahoo, google, facebook, etc to have ever waste billions into huge office campuses.

And no, the reason isn't "video conferencing bad".

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#107

Post by ballenf »

Contusion3532 wrote: post #16
ramon156 wrote: post #6

This post both says "I was most important at the company" And "I was easily dismissed". Can a CEO really be that disconnected from their company?

I think so. It's my belief that they often times leadership sees software engineers as cogs that can easily be replaced by another. They don't appreciate the years of institutional knowledge that experienced engineers have, vast productivity differences between workers, etc.

If certain members become known as being super important or valuable, management's response will more often be "fix this risk" not "great, let's reward that person". In the short term it will bring that person some degree of job security, but in the long term they are viewed as a threat to the org.

It's the assembly line mindset -- if there's only one person who can operate the machine or build a part, remove the part.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#108

Post by cmrdporcupine »

I would love to go back to an office. But not the new offices and workplaces that have shaken out in the post-COVID era.

Reserving floating desks. Insufficient office space for the number of employees (because they overhired in 20/21). Declining quality of local employer options generally. A more hostile environment overall. Before I left Google it was clear that the rather nice environment we had before was never coming back. So without the perks, and the pleasant... why stay other than money? I decided I'd rather just cut spending. (Obviously others don't necessarily have these options)

I don't actually like working remote (though I don't miss the commute). But the only way to get meaningful work and work that pays decently for me now is remote.

I think many employers doing mandatory RTO are overplaying their hand and they will suffer for it. Or they are giving a clear signal of the values that actually hold in their workplace, and so basically telling picky and probably higher quality senior talent to stay away.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#109

Post by barryrandall »

bhouston wrote: post #47

I think that many people struggle at home (group A) while others don't (group B). RTO helps those who struggle at home (group A). And is a major inconvenience to those who excelled at home (group B) but it doesn't significantly degrade them. Thus RTO improves group A performance while not affecting group B performance so it looks like a win overall and in a sense it is. But it is penalizing group B, making their live…

There's also a group C that struggles in most office environments, but excels at home.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#110

Post by bacza2 »

mc32 wrote: post #75
x86x87 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not only about before pandemic remote workers. Once people enjoyed the flexibility they aren't going back.

Some or many people are just as productive working from home, but also many are not and are more productive in an office environment. There need to be better more reliable ways of measuring this and affording those who are able to be productive while remote the option. Those who aren’t as productive WFH don’t get the choice.

Why it always need to be only about productivity and not what is better for people? I get that company need to make money but surly productivity is not dropping 50% and company makes significantly less
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