12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed • Hacker News Board

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#211

Post by Retric » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 1:24 PM UTC

matkoniecz wrote: post #199

Retric wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hunter gatherer’s had a lot of free time. Based on studies of the last hunter gather groups, in reasonably fertile area they can spend ~15 hours per week on food and ~15-20 hours per week on domestic chores. That seems similar to us except we exclude tasks like commuting, grocery shopping, cooking, working out, cleaning dishes etc from what we consider ‘work’. Thus resulting in a lot more time for hobbies and sociali…

> In reasonably fertile area they can spend ~15 hours per week on food and ~15-20 hours per week on domestic chores. on what you base this one? (from what I remember this time would not be even to even produce clothes - unless it is for area of world where no clothing is needed?)

1960’s studies of the Bushmen one of the last remaining hunter gatherer groups had roughly that much time spent working. They really spent quite a lot of time working on hobbies and socializing.

Processing animal skins is also a lot faster than weaving. Clothing is ~170,000 years old, weaving is very recent by comparison.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#212

Post by edgyquant » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

maebert wrote: post #170

xbmcuser wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been my pet theory that human civilizations had advanced a lot more before a some kind of extinction event pushed humans back to 1. Maybe not as technologically advanced as the current civilization but advanced in its own way.

It’s an entertaining idea, however unfortunately easily proven wrong. The most striking argument against it (or any “Silurian” theory) is that any form of “civilization” in the strictest sense needs permanent settlements that require permanent agriculture, and hence fertilized soil. We should hence be able to find nitrogen rich layers of soil or sediment where prehistoric civilizations resided, but that’s just not th…

No one mentioned agriculture though, you’re attacking a straw man.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#213

Post by edgyquant » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #157

pakitan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer > Researchers Gurven and Kaplan have estimated that around 57% of hunter-gatherers reach the age of 15. Of those that reach 15 years of age, 64% continue to live to or past the age of 45. This places the life expectancy between 21 and 37 years.[54] They further estimate that 70% of deaths are due to diseases of some kind, 20% of deaths come from violence or accidents and…

Karahan Tepe is not hunter gatherers, it's a permanent settlement. But even that aside, it is definitely not what the guy in video literally said, which is quote "their lifespans would have only been around 35 years", 5:22. By the way, I had to sit through 6 unskippable 10-second ads to tell you the timestamp (2 ads every time I scrub around). Edited for brevity

I don’t think permanent settlement disqualifies a site from being hunter-gatherers. Jericho is a permanent settlement that predates agriculture

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#214

Post by edgyquant » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

hnbad wrote: post #156

ido wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why women specifically? Or did you mean humans?

Probably extrapolating from the debunked pseudoscience of "women were gatherers, men were hunters", which fuels 90% of present evopsych nonsense. For those unaware: prehistorical "hunter-gatherer" societies likely did not have strong divisions of labor and there is no evidence to suggest such a universal division across gender lines. Quite the opposite, actually. Turns out when you hunt large mammals in a group, the…

That isn’t debunked, how ridiculous. It’s true not all men were hunters, but that doesn’t mean that there was an equal share of women among the hunters. They travelled as a group and everyone gathered, but men went out to get the kill.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#215

Post by throwaway290 » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #209

throwaway290 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karahan Tepe is not hunter gatherers, it's a permanent settlement. But even that aside, it is definitely not what the guy in video literally said, which is quote "their lifespans would have only been around 35 years", 5:22. By the way, I had to sit through 6 unskippable 10-second ads to tell you the timestamp (2 ads every time I scrub around). Edited for brevity

> By the way, I had to sit through 6 unskippable 10-second ads to tell you the timestamp (2 ads every time I scrub around). Huh, does uBlock Origin not work for blocking ads on YouTube anymore?

I don't use extensions

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#216

Post by paganel » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #182

paganel wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there some way that we could "scan the Earth" to find other long-buried sites like Göbeklitepe? The Brits had started a Lidar survey of most of their country a few years ago, I'd say 2015-2016, but I'm not sure if that information is entirely accurate and, if it is accurate, I'm not sure how far they have got with it (what if all the cuts made to spending money on stuff that is not seen as essential).

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/18/laser-surve... Browsable map: https://houseprices.io/lab/lidar/map?ref=TQ7237355141

Very cool, thanks for the links!

I'm jealous in a positive way that the Brits have managed to do that. There was some talk about trying to emulate them when it comes to some archaeological sites here in Romania, but apart from a couple of tries/mappings nothing systematic has been implemented.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#217

Post by softfalcon » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 3:11 PM UTC

mkaic wrote: post #13

If you're interested in learning more about these incredible Turkish archaeological sites, I can't recommend the YouTube channel Miniminuteman [0] enough. Milo is extremely passionate about his field of study and makes highly entertaining and informative videos about archaeology and anthropology, including a recent series where he became the first real archaeologist ever to be allowed to film a documentary on-site at…

+1 for Miniminuteman! His shorts debunking flat-earther types is also incredibly entertaining.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#218

Post by softfalcon » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #132

mkaic wrote: post #13

If you're interested in learning more about these incredible Turkish archaeological sites, I can't recommend the YouTube channel Miniminuteman [0] enough. Milo is extremely passionate about his field of study and makes highly entertaining and informative videos about archaeology and anthropology, including a recent series where he became the first real archaeologist ever to be allowed to film a documentary on-site at…

He mentions that people back then lived around 35 years. I recall reading it's a mistaken interpretation of the average age, while many people died infants adults actually easily lived to 70+ yo. Is it true and he made the same mistake or am I thinking about a different period in history?

These statistics regularly make it sound like everyone was dying off around 30.

In reality, it is due to infant mortality rates. Once you make it past a certain age (10-15 years) your life expectancy shoots up into the 40-60's easily. However, when you average the population out, those infant deaths tank the average life expectancy.

I'm not surprised they glossed over this, most researchers do, because they don't want to go into infantile deaths, disease spread during child birth, still births, etc.

Not only is it a complex topic, but it's fraught with political and religious ideology. When my history and anthropology professors started talking about it, certain folks of a particular religious bent almost immediately started trying to correct them about it.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#219

Post by softfalcon » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

A common statement was brought up in my history classes:

"humans of the past were often as resourceful, if not more resourceful than we are, they simply had less opportunities than we do today."

If you put yourself in the place of your ancestors. Who you are, you could probably figure out a way to make a statue. It stands to reason that someone a bit smarter (or more motivated) than you or I could also figure it out without our modern day tools.

Human ingenuity is astounding and I love the idea that past humanity was just us without iPhones.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#220

Post by throwaway290 » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

softfalcon wrote: post #218

throwaway290 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He mentions that people back then lived around 35 years. I recall reading it's a mistaken interpretation of the average age, while many people died infants adults actually easily lived to 70+ yo. Is it true and he made the same mistake or am I thinking about a different period in history?

These statistics regularly make it sound like everyone was dying off around 30. In reality, it is due to infant mortality rates. Once you make it past a certain age (10-15 years) your life expectancy shoots up into the 40-60's easily. However, when you average the population out, those infant deaths tank the average life expectancy. I'm not surprised they glossed over this, most researchers do, because they don't wan…

The guy in the video said "their lifespans would have only been around 35 years" which sounds not so much glossing over as being plain incorrect.

I am annoyed by these slips every time because they make it seem as if we live so much longer since hunter-gatherer times... Modern medicine reduced early age mortality, sure, but funny enough it did not do much to increase max lifespan (and especially healthy lifespan).