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Why You Don't Need A Programmer

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Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#31

Post by bomatson »

georgemcbay wrote: post #26
DanBC wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now I am biased, but why would one go into a partnership with a business person in the first place. Because they know the bureaucracy and can get on with handling the paperwork and legal admin while you get on and do the actual work?

If they do actually know how to handle the business end, then they are in fact valuable, but that is assuming much. A lot of the "business-side" cofounders you run into in the real world are just glorified "idea men", willing to "generously" cut you in on 5% if you just code up their "Facebook, but for Cats" site they've been thinking about for the past year.

lol. Facebook for cats.

Reminds me of Pets.com

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#32

Post by JoshTriplett »

_3u10 wrote: post #11

If someone hires me to write something for them I write that for them, if they ask me for advice I give them advice. I don't get into arguments about how their idea won't work, or call them 'stupid', I charge them my rate for the work they ask me to do and I thank them when they pay me. You think the guys at the general store in 1849 told the gold prospectors that they were stupid and would lose their money? Or do yo…

The approach you suggest works fine in the short term: most of your customers will fail, but only after paying you, and there's a line of suckers behind them.

However, in the long term, if you help a customer thrive by helping them understand what they really need, you might make a bit less off that customer right away, but you'll have a customer for life, and many more where that came from via word of mouth.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#33

Post by redthrowaway »

Jabbles wrote: post #22
lukeholder wrote: post #2

This puts into words very clearly my feelings and experience. I have a friend (very smart) who graduated top of class MBA. He has a 'co-founder' with him working on their idea who is also an MBA. They are looking for a coder, and offered %5-%10 stake in the company for virtually building the whole app and everything with no salary. Completely warped view of an app/online service startup. Of course they would have eve…

Is that the going rate for a job that has a high likelihood of not existing in a year's time?

Depending on the area, sure. Not everyone gets Valley rates.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#38

Post by orky56 »

jordanb wrote: post #21
tomjen3 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck as far as I can see I can't see the value of the business person at all, except for whatever connections he has. Now I am biased, but why would one go into a partnership with a business person in the first place.

Yeah. I think a business founder looking for free tech work has already failed the first test as a businessman: He hasn't been able to raise the $40k-$80k in seed funding needed to build an MVP. If he can't convince a guy who doles out capital for a living to give him a tiny bit of it, why should he expect a programmer to front him that value in highly skilled labor?

Alright, let's say that business founder gets $60k in seed funding. Would a technical cofounder expect that $60k as salary or towards some specific asset for the company? I don't think that $60k of seed funding is what stands between a businessman with his idea and success.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#39

Post by orky56 »

tswartz wrote: post #36

This is exactly what I've been experiencing. It's been immensely difficult to find a technical co-founder so I've resigned to have a programmer build the basic prototype...

Ditto. Business founders need to be able to pitch to investors and customers, to even garner that initial interest. Since there seems to be an inflation of technical cofounders' "unwillingness" to partner, there's no other choice than to outsource development of an MVP. At least with that, you can get customers, and thus traction. At that point, there's less risk and thus less available equity for a technical cofounder. Nowadays, it's either you have a technical cofounder or you don't.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#40

Post by JVIDEL »

I get the point, but there's another side to this:

9 out of 10 of all startups out there are a business method, they don't need 10x engineers to build new technologies, and what they want can be done by a freelancer using a CMS and some elbow grease.

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