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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#551

Post by NullPrefix »

matsemann wrote: post #529
michaelteter wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all" Certainly no, that's not why people are "cautious". They are hesitant about EVs because they fear running out of "gas" mid-trip. Most people don't give a shit about anything except their plans and needs (and not necessarily unreasonbly so). You can just look around at what kinds of cars most people purchase to reason what their priorities are (or are…

Range anxiety was solved years ago. I don't know of anyone with an EV (which is most car owners here in Norway) that actually feel this is a problem. You can charge at basically every gas station in the country, and new cars have 400km ++ range.

Saying range anxiety was solved years ago is the same as saying hunger was solved hundreds of years ago. Just because you can afford it, doesn't mean everyone else can afford it.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#552

Post by matsemann »

jwells89 wrote: post #549
matsemann wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you get what you give incentives for. Right now, there's a big push to move to EVs. However, in the long run you might end up with more cars total. As the old cars aren't going away for a while. So you're kinda pushing a even heavier car dependence on society. All for a small net gain of reducing a few ICE vehicles. If the same subsidies were also applied to (electric) bikes, public transit etc it…

For bike subsidies to work a ton of money would need to be put into installation of bike lanes too, though. Where I live a bike would be great, but bike lanes are rare and riding on the road along with gargantuan SUVs and trucks is not an attractive proposition.

It's only expensive because one insists on having all the roads remain for cars and need to build bicycle infra in addition, often by purchasing land next to the road, rebuilding intersections etc.

Can do it cheaper like how they did in Paris: just give some of the roads and lanes to cyclists. Almost free, might need a bollard in the beginning, but the road is there already.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#553

Post by matsemann »

NullPrefix wrote: post #551
matsemann wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range anxiety was solved years ago. I don't know of anyone with an EV (which is most car owners here in Norway) that actually feel this is a problem. You can charge at basically every gas station in the country, and new cars have 400km ++ range.

Saying range anxiety was solved years ago is the same as saying hunger was solved hundreds of years ago. Just because you can afford it, doesn't mean everyone else can afford it.

Well if affordability is your concern, what about all those that can't afford cars? Purchasing, insurances, payments, gas, repairs, other upkeep etc. is tremendously invasive in lots of people's economy.

So for affordability's sake, figure out how to avoid cars entirely is the best bet.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#554

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

johnloeber wrote: post #446
RGamma wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had the pleasure to vacation on a car-free island (few thousand inhabitants including tourists). Only motorized vehicles allowed are a handfull small electric transporters for logistics (and construction vehicles, ambulance). Turns out the space gained from lack of car infrastructure increases space efficiency by a lot (not that that wasn't obvious from theory). It really was bliss and it makes me despise…

Where was this island? Would love to go!

Catalina Island right off the coast of california

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#555

Post by igravious »

mlsu wrote: post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

poison?

demonic?

spare us the histrionics

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#556

Post by igravious »

crazygringo wrote: post #332
alt227 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely interested here. If natural rubber and plastic are exactly the same thing, then why is natural rubber being advocated as a much more environmentally sound alternative? Would'nt the dust from natural rubber tyres be just as problematic as the plastic is now?

Yes this is exactly my question as well. Is the dust just as bad for the environment, but natural rubber wears more slowly due to the longer chains? Or is the dust somehow a less harmful kind of dust?

natural = good; synthetic = bad (◔_◔)

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#557

Post by sokoloff »

rangledangle wrote: post #390
wizofaus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd only add "...because they're incredibly useful, AND government policy has consistently favoured such a mode of transport over all other alternatives". The amount spent by governments on maintaining road infrastructure dwarfs all other transport spending, the amount of land dedicated to parking and driving space is mindboggling, and of course the amount spent on ensuring the global oil industry has been able to re…

Cars are only useful because America foolishly built and rebuilt around cars, instead of humans. There were even places that functioned perfectly fine with transit and walking, destroyed and replaced with infrastructure for cars. Undoing our mistake is always an option.

If it can be demonstrated to most voters to be a mistake, presenting the full plan to undo and replace it with something better would be a good next step.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#558

Post by CharlieDigital »

ars wrote: post #434
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

> If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars. No we can't. It takes 30 minutes to get to the airport for me by car - even during rush hour, or 1.5 hours by express bus. Or for a friend of mine - 40 minutes by car, or 2 hours by train + bus. Sorry, but there's no fix you can apply to public transport that will fix this. Public transport is also more expensive - I took a group to Washington D.C…

That has more to do with the middling state of public transit in the US than it does with public transit itself.

In Taiwan, when you land at TPE, there is an express MRT line that connects directly to Taipei Main Station. You can also hop on the High Speed Rail and connect to southern destinations. Bypasses all of the traffic and congestion.

Fantastic way to travel and makes it so much more convenient.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#559

Post by V__ »

baggy_trough wrote: post #419
V__ wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People prefer a lot of things, it's almost never an indicator for what is better or worse. By most metrics, cars are a worse alternative. However, if the infrastructure has already been built around cars, it's hard to change that.

I very much doubt that cars are worse by most metrics, especially the metrics that count.

What metrics count? Cars are worse for the environment and health, the infrastructure is more expensive, accidents are worse, they cost more, and they create tremendous opportunity costs by creating car centric cities. One could go on.

They are more practicable/convenient because the infrastructure is already in place. Also, in more rural areas there might never be an alternative. That is pretty much it.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#560

Post by trgn »

avalys wrote: post #309
trgn wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bold ideas are welcome. Burrying heads in the sand not an option. It's simple. It's more mobility options, especially safe active transportation. EVs are still cars. It's a change in the margin. What is really needed is people biking, walking for their daily errands instead of using a car. As for the safe part, it does not require anything special. The aspirational world of the future will be made real with bollard…

You're basically saying that you want to force everyone to live in a city - a super dense developed area where all your daily needs are within walking distance. Not everyone wants to live in a city!

No, it's not what I said. Keep the car out in the country.

I wrote safe mobility options for all, so active modes of transportation are a viable alternative to the car. That applies both to the city and the country.

To make walking and biking safe, the implementation will be largely low-tech. Trees, bollards.

It's not EVs (high tech) that will trigger the transformation to curb pollution. It will be people choosing to walk and bike iso choosing to the drive.

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