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Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

nltimes.nl

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Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#131

Post by wink »

matsemann wrote: post #18
jraph wrote: post #9

My city has been limited to 30 km/h for a few years now. As someone who is mostly by bike and by foot, sometimes in public transports and occasionally in a car, that has been a good thing. The city is small and full of traffic lights, and there's a ring road, 50 to 30 km/h inside the city can't be increasing travel time too much for cars. I don't think it was possible to drive at 50 km/h in most of the city anyway. (…

I'm fan of the concept of superblocks. You can drive inside them, but not between them. Want to go from block A to D? Can't drive through B and C. Need to drive out to the ring road, then follow it and into block D. Makes it so that no through traffic at speed goes through the areas where people live and stay.

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me. I'm 90% a bike person and still I am against a blanket 30kph speed limit in my city. I'm not against making all smaller residential streets a 30 zone, but the ring roads and the radial ones going to the center are kinda long.

Maybe it works out if it's a matter of fact and you move there and can find some place to live with awesome public transport but while I think ours is generally good there are some real holes in the coverage, especially the more you go towards the edge of the city. it's just not comparison. Subway stations are not 800m apart but more like 3.5km

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#133

Post by wink »

Vinnl wrote: post #85
thinkingemote wrote: post #6

In many older urban areas it's hard to get beyond 30km/hr just due to the traffic, narrow streets, lights, cobbles etc.

In many (also newer) urban areas in the Netherlands, narrow streets and cobbles are used intentionally to encourage lower speeds. The "30" sign is more of a last resort in that sense.

cycling on cobblestone sucks though, so not sure how that really works out :P (Let's assume there's no dedicated cycle path next to the cobblestone road, guess it depends)

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#134

Post by meheleventyone »

macleginn wrote: post #25
meheleventyone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re doing this in Reykjavik as well which is great, although enforcement is poor so on the larger roads that are now 50km/h everyone is still driving 70km/h as they were when the limit was 60km/h. Going back to the UK where a twisty road through my parents village with tiny pavements was 30mph was pretty shocking with how much more dangerous that felt.

As an aside, speed-limit enforcement in Iceland outside of Reykjavik is almost nonexistent. On the ring road, which goes around the whole country and has a strict but reasonable limit of 90 km/h (few cars but tons of bumps and sudden turns + a lot of low visibility due to bad weather), there are no more than 10 speed cameras, so everybody is driving at their own discretion.

The only place I’ve got a ticket was in the countryside so YMMV!

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#135

Post by pjc50 »

kmlx wrote: post #72
meheleventyone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re doing this in Reykjavik as well which is great, although enforcement is poor so on the larger roads that are now 50km/h everyone is still driving 70km/h as they were when the limit was 60km/h. Going back to the UK where a twisty road through my parents village with tiny pavements was 30mph was pretty shocking with how much more dangerous that felt.

from my experience the level of perceived dangerousness is proportional to your most recent experience. drove in the center of Bucharest, Romania, where drivers constantly go over 70kmh (yes through the city center). then drove in London where 20-30mph felt ridiculously slow.

For those who haven't seen it, may I present https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilR93GwSYEA : "C'ETAIT UN RENDEZ-VOUS" - Claude Lelouch (1976), a short film of driving from the north of Paris to Montmartre in eight minutes. The title card says "no trick photography and the film has not been sped up".

Don't try this at home.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#136

Post by michaelhoney »

pakitan wrote: post #104
mcv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is by far the biggest reason for the preference for 30 km/h. Reduced noise and pollution are certainly nice, but killing far less people is huge.

Why not reduce speed to 10km/h then? Even fewer people will be killed! This is the covid logic all over again. Let's lock everyone in their homes, we can't afford to have old people dying! Also, no, ICE cars generally don't pollute less at 30km/h, compared to 50km/h. Engine does the same work, just at lower gear.

your first paragraph is a needless exaggeration, and your second is demonstrably untrue. Calm down and recognise that this change will result in quieter, safer streets. There’s nothing to be threatened by.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#137

Post by pjc50 »

okokwhatever wrote: post #90
Vinnl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"City" is a broad term, encompassing e.g. NYC, but also Amsterdam, with a population of a mere 900k. Most parts of Amsterdam are really pretty quiet when there are no/few/slow-driving cars.

Its so funny everybody is talking just about Amsterdam. Try this in Rome and then lets talk again. Guys, you´re forgetting cities are cultural places not robot factories. Cultural and existential differences are real and shouldn't be imposed by law just to recall quietness in a crowded place like a city in Europe where people live in the streets as a cultural thing. We´re constantly educating the population by law an…

You're fighting shadows again. The human noise of people as in Rome is the kind of thing people are trying to optimize _for_, because there's an inherent tension between high speed cars and pavement cafes. Admittedly Rome has both, but not on the same streets.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#138

Post by michaelhoney »

okokwhatever wrote: post #90
Vinnl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"City" is a broad term, encompassing e.g. NYC, but also Amsterdam, with a population of a mere 900k. Most parts of Amsterdam are really pretty quiet when there are no/few/slow-driving cars.

Its so funny everybody is talking just about Amsterdam. Try this in Rome and then lets talk again. Guys, you´re forgetting cities are cultural places not robot factories. Cultural and existential differences are real and shouldn't be imposed by law just to recall quietness in a crowded place like a city in Europe where people live in the streets as a cultural thing. We´re constantly educating the population by law an…

Venice is in Italy. I have stood outside at night and basked in the relative silence.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#139

Post by pjc50 »

Muromec wrote: post #107
pastyboy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less pollution not so much, everyone will be in 2nd gear, less deaths perhaps.

In other news, Amsterdam bans all co2 emitting vehicles from the city starting 2025. Boats and bikes included

Banning CO2 emitting _boats_? That's a much larger change than I expected, because wow there are an awful lot of boats there.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#140

Post by mcv »

hgomersall wrote: post #94
thejackgoode wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, sirens are noisy and nobody even talks about regulating them adequately

In the UK, hearing a siren is exceptionally rare. AFAICT, they overwhelmingly prefer lights only, saving sirens for a narrow set of circumstances.

Same in NL. Sirens are only turned on in the most extreme cases. In most cases lights seem to be enough. I do get the impression that firefighters are a bit more likely to use sirens than police and ambulance are, but I'm fine with that.
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