12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed • Hacker News Board

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#161

Post by hnbad » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:04 AM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #92

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like it’s saying that Death is a wanker. I wonder if it was deliberately humorous, which would add another dimension. I know that the Incas had statues that were basically hardcore pr0n. I’m not sure the reason. Probably fertility stuff.

I feel like comedy is so cultural that there are a number of artifacts that are jokes, but we'll never, ever know. Like this thing - maybe it's mocking someone? Who knows.

It's nearby a relief that is literally some guy stroking his cock with his other hand resting on his stomach. For all we know this was just the work of a very dedicated and very horny artist.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#162

Post by OJFord » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:08 AM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #91

cjohnson318 wrote: post #82

I wonder how long ago our ancestors forgot about this settlement and it was lost, and how many times it was rediscovered through the ages. I bet Homer knew of or had heard of some ancient sites that were either never memorialized in a poem, or poems never survived to modern times.

It's honestly staggering to think about how much didn't survive because it was made of wood or clay. And the oral history of our species that is forever lost. Just staggering.

I find it more staggering that anything survived (with a gap before being rediscovered). It's just funny to think about the set of circumstances that might lead to things being left, forgotten, and buried, isn't it?

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#163

Post by hnbad » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

dwd wrote: post #74

mcpackieh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you think of any artistic depiction of a human from that era that is more detailed? Humans in cave paintings are basically stick men.

Stick figure cave paintings are paleolithic graffiti. If you think artists find it hard to scratch a living these days, you're not going to find much support for following your passion when there is hunting, gathering and defending against predators to do. But if a sharman (assuming it is a statue for their deity) has the time, then there's no reason it couldn't be perfectly proportioned. It's not like hand-eye coord…

> If you think artists find it hard to scratch a living these days, you're not going to find much support for following your passion when there is hunting, gathering and defending against predators to do.

You seem to seriously overestimate the average workload of prehistoric communities (or underestimating the average workload of present day individuals). Also I don't think the concept of making "a living" transfers to gift economies. Nor do you need to spend 16 hours a day every day "being an artist" to develop remarkable artistic skill. Strict division of labor is a fairly recent development that in its present form stems from industrialisation requiring work to be split into discrete processes to enable automation.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#164

Post by Fluorescence » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:23 AM UTC

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

Has the statue itself been dated? 12,000 yo is the estimated founding date of Göbekli Tepe not it's last use. Humans like to move things about go through many phases of inhabitation of a place.

How is dating as a science faring in the replication crisis? It seems fraught with incentives for those involved. Discover something 2000 years old and no-one cares but 12,000 years old and you've got a TV career and a book deal.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#165

Post by AlertGooble » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:27 AM UTC

tonyvince7 wrote: post #134

Graham Hancock must be feeling vindicated

He's too caught up in the impact theory when, clearly, it's the sun.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#166

Post by xbmcuser » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:28 AM UTC

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

It has been my pet theory that human civilizations had advanced a lot more before a some kind of extinction event pushed humans back to 1. Maybe not as technologically advanced as the current civilization but advanced in its own way.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#167

Post by detourdog » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:29 AM UTC

boffinAudio wrote: post #139

detourdog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take great comfort in trying to figure out why these sites were buried. I believe the current understanding is that that were carefully covered with dirt contemporaneously with usage.

There is a theory that they were not intentionally buried after all, but rather that the deposits were the result of geological processes .. apparently they've found arrowheads in the deposit layers that demonstrate that the filling material was deposited over hundreds, or even thousands, of years ..

That makes a lot more sense to me. Do you have a source for more info. I think that would imply a social collapse that could no longer maintain their infrastructure.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#168

Post by maratc » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:31 AM UTC

p-e-w wrote: post #107

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

> My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. Huh? The Venus of Willendorf[1] is twice as old, and to my eye displays a higher degree of artistry than the statue shown in the article. Several such Venus figurines have been found in central Europe. Compared to the intricacy of the Venus' limestone carving, the statue from the article looks downright crude. Th…

What I think you might be missing is that Venus could be a pet project of a single person, done in their free time over some period.

The statues, especially in the context of the greater site, could not be made by one person — many people should be working there for quite a long period of time, while physically staying in the place. Since they were working on the temple complex, (a) they could not be themselves participating in hunter-gathering activities (and we think human societies were engaged with that at the time); and (b) someone else should be providing them with the food, clothes, tools, and everything they need — implying there was some sort of a social structure (aka civilization).

This is what I think GP meant when saying "not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago".

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#169

Post by dizhn » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:36 AM UTC

In local media photographs of the statue is lacking a penis. I hope it's a photoshop job and not actual severing.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#170

Post by maebert » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 9:38 AM UTC

xbmcuser wrote: post #166

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

It has been my pet theory that human civilizations had advanced a lot more before a some kind of extinction event pushed humans back to 1. Maybe not as technologically advanced as the current civilization but advanced in its own way.

It’s an entertaining idea, however unfortunately easily proven wrong. The most striking argument against it (or any “Silurian” theory) is that any form of “civilization” in the strictest sense needs permanent settlements that require permanent agriculture, and hence fertilized soil. We should hence be able to find nitrogen rich layers of soil or sediment where prehistoric civilizations resided, but that’s just not the case.