Live data from Hacker News

Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

541–550 of 635 posts

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#541

With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads. I think we should be shifting entirely to a gross curb weight tax for all vehicles. The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused by the motor vehicle increases in proportion to the fourth power of the axle load. Meaning heavier EVs cough hummer , are doi…

What about brake dust? That's a big problem too, and curb weight tax wouldn't help because EV mostly use regen braking[0].

Also, some tires and brakes emit far less than others[O], so it would be much better to tax by level of non-exhaust emissions (just like CO2/km).

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9178796/

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#542

I worked on a phd for 4 years looking into this problem indirectly and for a decade at Ohio State they have had working solutions to the tire dust issue but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get funding. A Billion dollar industry and NO ONE cares about cleaning it up if it means increasing costs by 5% or more. It has been WELL KNOWN for 50 years! We are basically aerosolizing carbon in MASSIVE amounts right where we live and work.…

> (For anyone that cares, the solution is natural rubber, which costs slight more than synthetic rubber but lasts longer. So its better for consumers, cheaper all around, and 1,000x better for the environment but Goodyear, Firestone and Michelin flat out refuse to fund research or even block innovation in natural rubber.

I’m skeptical. Wikipedia says:

> Synthetic rubbers are superior to natural rubbers in two major respects: thermal stability, and resistance to oils and related compounds. [1]

What are they missing?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_rubber

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#543

I worked on a phd for 4 years looking into this problem indirectly and for a decade at Ohio State they have had working solutions to the tire dust issue but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get funding. A Billion dollar industry and NO ONE cares about cleaning it up if it means increasing costs by 5% or more. It has been WELL KNOWN for 50 years! We are basically aerosolizing carbon in MASSIVE amounts right where we live and work.…

Sounds like a job for EU.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#544
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American style suburbs are worse for raising a family than living in a city. Long commutes practically remove one or more parents from the equation 5 days a week. Long bus rides compromise sleep and exercise etc. All for a back yard that’s rarely used and worse in just about every way than a nice park. What they are is a cheap imitation of the wealthy enclaves near cities that only work because so few people can affo…

From the perspective of the child, it's much worse. You are basically arrested until you are 16-18. No independence whatsoever. Want to meet a friend? Ask your parents to drive. They're busy? Too bad.

Why can't they just walk or bike to their friends? 2-3 km walking distance is perfectly fine, bike extends that range significantly (10 km at least). This was the case for me.

Sorry if the question is naive, I don't live in USA.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of how differently the 20th century would have played out if we didn't have such a demand for oil.

For example if you google "why did Japan enter WW2" the summary answer is: > "Faced with severe shortages of oil .. Japan decided to attack the United States and British forces in Asia and seize the resources of Southeast Asia."

It’s the other way around. They lost access to oil because they entered WW2.

Had they not decided to invade Indochina (and China before that) US wouldn’t have embargoed oil exports to Japan.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#546
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all", to put it mildly. We are so focused on climate change and greenhouse gases that we do not see a lot of other issues and may exacerbate some of them in the process of decarbonisation.

Agreed. Even solar + wind - when the buzz started it was all rainbows and butterflies because we found a silver bullet to energy! There is no such thing as free lunch. If you start absorbing massive amounts of solar, you will have some effect on the environment that we have absolutely no clue about. Same with interfering with wind patterns and ocean currents, which would happen with energy generation at true humanity…

Not sure if absorbing solar in particular has some unforeseen consequences but I saw an interesting article the other day:

Tidal Energy Is Not Renewable

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/zjl/tide.html

We really have to think this all through before jumping 100% on any particular bandwagon. Researching, testing, seeing how it goes and adjusting is a must.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Proper waste disposal is an unsolved issue that extends beyond so many human generations. Also I suspect that social licence and NIMBYism will make it impossible to build them in time to save us from global warming.

Based on the conclusions in this comment thread, any energy source more exotic than a wood campfire is unacceptably damaging.

I get the joke but let me just mention that wood campfire is one of the worst solutions (if done at scale). This may sound idealistic (like the other comments mentioned) but I think we just have to reduce our energy footprint and then many solutions will be green again.

One great example (some will say absurd and impractical) is just using energy whenever it is available, with minimum storage. That means cooking, heating water etc. during the day (or when the wind is high) and only using lighting and low-energy devices at night. Factories could work on a similar principle (producing more in the summer) but then we would have to rearrange a lot more stuff to suit the seasonal renewable energy production capabilities.

This may sound absurd but it only shows how much we are locked in our way of thinking about how reality is supposed to work, not what it is. There's no reason to have high quality on-demand electrical energy available 24/7/365 other than convenience. Convenience that fossil fuels brought us.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#548
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always this circular logic where "I need my car because the supermarket is an hour walk" but the supermarket is an hour walk because everyone drives. It's mind boggling how much resources get poured in to cars and car infrastructure only to provide a slower, inefficient, more expensive, and toxic system. Feels like the next generation is seeing this now and things are slowly starting to change in some countries.…

> It's always this circular logic where "I need my car because the supermarket is an hour walk" but the supermarket is an hour walk because everyone drives. If there’s no roads and vehicles, how does the food get to the supermarket?

No one's saying "no roads or vehicles", op was pointing to the circular justification for the level of infrastructure built up for vehicles. This is a classic straw man.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#549
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment is just contrarianism, I think. I've lived in Los Angeles my whole life and the difference that clean air standards make is obvious. The black dust isn't just tire and brake dust. It's also soot and it used to be much much worse. Nothing is a silver bullet but I'll be much happier when we're done with ICE noise and exhaust.

The problem is that you get what you give incentives for. Right now, there's a big push to move to EVs. However, in the long run you might end up with more cars total. As the old cars aren't going away for a while. So you're kinda pushing a even heavier car dependence on society. All for a small net gain of reducing a few ICE vehicles. If the same subsidies were also applied to (electric) bikes, public transit etc it…

For bike subsidies to work a ton of money would need to be put into installation of bike lanes too, though. Where I live a bike would be great, but bike lanes are rare and riding on the road along with gargantuan SUVs and trucks is not an attractive proposition.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#550
post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

There is no such thing as a sustainable future that centers around automobiles. The US might not internalize this for a generation or two, but it's true. It doesn't matter if they're electric or ICE, or if they're driven by humans or AI, they just don't fit in a sustainable future. There are 278m cars in the US, roughly 83% of the population. To scale to the world, that means 6.7b cars. That's completely absurd and wildly unsustainable, even at half the scale. Here's what's unsustainable:

- sourcing rare earth materials needed for batteries and computer components

- powering them

- handling the waste cars when owners upgrade or crash them

- putting tires on them

- the space needed to operate and store them

- the amount of time people spend in them

- the amount of labor required to build and maintain them

- the amount of labor required to maintain roads for them (maintenance, snow removal, etc.)

Doing any of this arguably involves human rights or ecological disasters. But that aside, barring widespread fusion reactor deployments, it is impossible. This above all else is why I just can't agree that Tesla will save the world or that self-driving cars are the future. They simply can't be, unless the future is absolutely terrible.

The western world is due for a reckoning. If we flatten out living standards across the world, GDP per capita is $12,414. If you want to be extraordinarily generous/cruel and leave out everyone except the US, Canada, Europe, India, and China it only goes up to $17k. That doesn't leave room for things like car ownership, air travel, Macbooks, college, eating out, child care, health care, etc. etc. It also doesn't help (to put it lightly) that the overwhelming majority of population growth is going to occur in poorer parts of the world.

The simple truth is either the western world figures out how to make do with far, far less than it currently does (and notably its elite essentially learn to be poor) or we suffer a prolonged period of intense violence while everyone else either quietly suffers/dies or loudly makes us pay for hoarding. There's a sliver of a chance where we figure out how to generate enough clean energy to raise everyone's living standards enough to pacify them, but it seems inevitable that the inequality that characterizes the current arrangement will apply to that as well, i.e. 1% to Africa 99% to Europe. It's possible they're just used to it and won't complain, but my guess is that climate change will force the issue.

Post reply on HN