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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#261

Post by pasabagi »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

It's a cool idea, but where do you draw the line? Where do you place something like microcode? Depending on how you design a computer, you can have software almost all the way down.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#262

Post by scarface_74 »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #260
scarface_74 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So somewhere there is an Asus, yet you can’t name it, can’t find a review of it and I’m suppose to just believe you based on your recommendation of a shitty Dell?

Again, the Dell wasn't shitty. You went out of your way to overexaggerate any flaws it may have had lol. I didn't even really check out your review because I've done my research in the past and know they have models that compete with macbooks. I told you it was an Asus B series, don't remember the exact model, but go visit their page. They advertise the fact it has more battery life and is lighter, it isn't hard to f…

So you didn’t read the review because “you did your own research”.

Yet you can’t seem to find the magical XPS 13 and cite a review?

Did your “research” tell you that by every objective measure it’s worse? The resolution is four times worse, the battery is three times worse, it’s loud, it’s slow.

Here is the review of the Asus B series. The newest one I could find. The contemporary MacBook Air at the time which was better in every way came out in late 2020 and was cheaper.

Again from the Verge and it’s the nearest one I could find..

https://www.theverge.com/22239215/asus-expertbook-b9450-revi...

Just make sure you know what you’re getting — because the low-powered processor and deafening fans certainly aren’t ideal for everyone.

but potential buyers should be aware that the processor is mostly suitable for basic office tasks. More on that in a bit.

And it’s even worse than the Dell XPS 13 that you were bragging about.

The Core i7-10510U is a four-core processor that’s significantly lower-powered than the chips you’ll see in the best laptops on the market like the Dell XPS 13. It’s far from a workhorse.

So it’s slower, hotter, louder, with worse graphics and lower battery life.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#263

Post by robertlagrant »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #195
Jtsummers wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rather amazing comment, I'm astonished by the bald-faced lie that you open your first paragraph with: > I'm not proposing that we split companies. Also you, only a couple comments up: > As far as I am aware my proposal would only force Apples to split itself in 2: a hardware company that sells top notch hardware (so top notch in fact that even the hardware interfaces are as clean and slick as an iPad's case…

Listen to any pro-gun advocate: the goal is not to kill the bad guy, the goal is to stop the bad guy… though unfortunately sometimes this means reducing their blood pressure to zero. The law as I propose it would not legally force Apple to split. They would have 3 alternatives: stop selling software, stop selling hardware, or split. They could fire half the company, but we all know what they would actually do. Same d…

But how would that actually work? Two companies have an agreement to work together and share specs between themselves?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#264

Post by scarface_74 »

vetinari wrote: post #193
scarface_74 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can go even further back when Microsoft was caught stealing QT code because they couldn’t do video competently themselves and Apple could (circa 1995). And every Mac geek knew how to work around it either via free third party software or just using AppleScript https://osxdaily.com/2007/01/30/play-quicktime-movies-full-s...

Nah, they didn't, when Jobs said someone has stealing his code, he meant that someone did something similar. Like "stealing his ideas". Also in 90's, there was no applescript support on macos classic qt, and third party players like vlc didn't exist yet either (not that they ever ran on classic). I know, I was mac user back then and I remember.

I just notice you said AppleScript didn’t exist then. It was introduced in 1993.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#265

Post by felurx »

scarface_74 wrote: post #222
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the connection. Two things appear to be true: 1. In the past, it was common to publish actual specs for talking to hardware. 2. In the past, drivers often sucked. You appear to be claiming that the first thing caused the second, but I can't see any reason for that to follow. It's not like hardware manufacturers couldn't, or indeed didn't, write their own official drivers, and on the other hand there's no…

And how slow was the evolution of both Windows and the entire ecosystem compared to Apple that could release an OS, the hardware and the drivers simultaneously? When Apple releases new hardware it can upgrade everything in tandem. It’s especially apparent now that everything Apple sells runs some variant of the same processor from the AirPods, Watches, tablets, TV set top boxes, phones and even monitors?

And what would stop Apple from doing that while also having to publish documentation?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#266

Post by PrimeMcFly »

scarface_74 wrote: post #262
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the Dell wasn't shitty. You went out of your way to overexaggerate any flaws it may have had lol. I didn't even really check out your review because I've done my research in the past and know they have models that compete with macbooks. I told you it was an Asus B series, don't remember the exact model, but go visit their page. They advertise the fact it has more battery life and is lighter, it isn't hard to f…

So you didn’t read the review because “you did your own research”. Yet you can’t seem to find the magical XPS 13 and cite a review? Did your “research” tell you that by every objective measure it’s worse? The resolution is four times worse, the battery is three times worse, it’s loud, it’s slow. Here is the review of the Asus B series. The newest one I could find. The contemporary MacBook Air at the time which was be…

I skimmed the review, it didn't match up with the models I had seen before, and seeing you basically flat out lie to overexaggerate some of the negative aspects made it easy to basically dismiss it and your reply.

I'm not putting any more effort into replying to you, other than typing in the reply box. Your point is asinine IMO, and I'm not interested in doing research to support what I already know, to someone who would bend over backwards to deny anything presented to them.

And that's the thing. You're going to believe whatever you want to believe, because Apple is the entity you worship religiously.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#267

Post by scarface_74 »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #266
scarface_74 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you didn’t read the review because “you did your own research”. Yet you can’t seem to find the magical XPS 13 and cite a review? Did your “research” tell you that by every objective measure it’s worse? The resolution is four times worse, the battery is three times worse, it’s loud, it’s slow. Here is the review of the Asus B series. The newest one I could find. The contemporary MacBook Air at the time which was be…

I skimmed the review, it didn't match up with the models I had seen before, and seeing you basically flat out lie to overexaggerate some of the negative aspects made it easy to basically dismiss it and your reply. I'm not putting any more effort into replying to you, other than typing in the reply box. Your point is asinine IMO, and I'm not interested in doing research to support what I already know, to someone who w…

So which model did you have? You can’t find a review anywhere on the internet? You claim I’m the zealout. But every piece of third party evidence you dismiss?

What exactly did I “lie” about? Were the quotes from the Verge inaccurate? What did I over exaggerate?

You have presented nothing. No websites, no reviews, no model numbers.

You said you “researched” your purchase before you bought the your laptop. What websites did you do your research at?

This is what evidence looks like since you haven’t posted a single link.

Just post a citation. It just needs to start with https://

Or if that’s too much trouble , which Dell XPS 13 do you have that has great battery life, performance, cooling, fanless and a decent screen resolution?

I’ve told you exactly what I have - a MacBook M2 air with 16GB RAM and a 1TB drive.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#268

Post by abenga »

scarface_74 wrote: post #62
alphager wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure you had to configure both devices for it to work.

No, just sign into both of them with your iCloud account

It obviously uses "a program, a hack, or configuration" (taking these from the original reply), just that they are written and pre-installed by Apple, and work seamlessly.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#269

Post by doctor_radium »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

An alternate paradigm? 20 years ago I mused over a law called the "Operating System Fairness Act", designed to level the playing field, mostly for smaller OS's. It's nowhere as revolutionary as separating hw development from sw development, but may thus be more realistic. One clause (of maybe six) concerned "Forced licensing of must-have drivers, algorithms, codecs, file formats, etc. to any viable OS, and for a price that market can bear".

At the time I was thinking of technologies like the Unisys GIF patent, Flash, various audio and video codecs, and peripheral drivers. If not having a technology makes an OS vitally less useful and appealing to a user then there's potentially a path to developer documentation. Who decides? I think the current system for DMCA exemptions works pretty well (noting that I despise the DMCA), so maybe a branch of the US Copyright Office or another government's similar branch? A viable OS is one with a notable following and which can use the technology. If I write RadiumOS for myself, that doesn't count. Likewise Widevine for the Atari 800 is out. But Linux anything would, the BSD family, and Amiga, BeOS/Haiku, etc. would have a fair shot. Making a free, public developers kit is always better, but offering an NDA to a developer representing each OS family would likely be common. No, it wouldn't be an instantaneous process, yes, there would be paperwork and maybe a lawyer involved, but the burden has to be bearable for each OS/developer. If you're Apple wanting the MS Office file formats, MS is allowed to charge a not insignificant amount, but if you're a free, open source OS, then the cost would be either free or nearly so. Not every vendor in a field would be cracked open. If AMD is very friendly to developers, then Nvidia could keep their video drivers proprietary. With all the OSS available today vs. 20 years ago, something like this is maybe a bit less useful, but IMHO still a significant step forward, and a hedge against companies suddenly taking their specs private.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#270

Post by midoridensha »

scarface_74 wrote: post #211
thomastjeffery wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How in the world is your everyday experience "better" today as a result of Apple's vertical integration? Spoiler: it isn't.

Really? I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life. And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it w…

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