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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#511

Post by hedora »

rootusrootus wrote: post #476
newsclues wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if heavy EVs cause more tire and brake dust.

Purpose-built EVs typically weigh 5-10% more than a comparable ICEV. That's not enough to make much of a difference. Go back to the usual target of anti-car hate -- pickups. Those are pretty heavy. And EVs make almost zero brake dust. On many EVs the pads will last the life of the vehicle, unless they malfunction due to non-usage.

Put another way, EVs average about 20% more tire dust, but the majority of ICE particulate emissions are from the engine.

So, EVs are a huge improvement.

Recently, tire manufacturers have started phasing out some of the nastier additives in tires (due to a new one causing fish die offs when it rains).

Tire dust is still terrible though. Hopefully, it’ll be the biggest environmental problem today’s toddlers have to deal with.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#512

Post by hedora »

rootusrootus wrote: post #477
artursapek wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs rip through tires lol

Eh, not really. Teslas tend to, because Tesla's slowest car is pretty fast. A typical EV driven by a normal driver gets pretty average life out of a set of tires.

Sadly, that’s not true. The large amount of low end torque leads to different rubber, etc.

Also, due to range anxiety, they tend to use low rolling resistance tires that wear more.

I spend more on tires than electricity for my EV, so I can imagine someone offering low efficiency / low wear tires as an option.

The above leads to about 20% more tire dust on average.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#513

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

brewdad wrote: post #437
wizofaus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd only add "...because they're incredibly useful, AND government policy has consistently favoured such a mode of transport over all other alternatives". The amount spent by governments on maintaining road infrastructure dwarfs all other transport spending, the amount of land dedicated to parking and driving space is mindboggling, and of course the amount spent on ensuring the global oil industry has been able to re…

I’ve been looking at places for retirement where I can live car-free or at least very car-lite. There are very few places in the US where this will be possible in my lifetime. Absolutely, let’s more towards an EV future because that’s the best we’ll do in most people’s lifetimes but we can’t expect that change to fix what we’ve spent 100 years building. It needs to be seen as step one of many yet so many Americans ar…

I’ve had several elderly relatives live without cars in apartment buildings in major US cities.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#514

Post by kortex »

burkaman wrote: post #391
Etheryte wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this [0] is the article (with discussion at [1]). To cherry-pick two quotes to contextualize what I recalled: > "Tires release 100 times the amount of volatile organic compounds as a modern tailpipe, says an analyst." > "Moreover, tire emissions from electric vehicles are 20 percent higher than those from fossil-fuel vehicles. EVs weigh more and have greater torque, which wears out tires faster." I'm not su…

Thanks, yeah this is pretty depressing. Feels almost unsolvable, I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it. Maybe we'll invent some perfect biodegradable tire, but it feels more likely that we'll just wall ourselves off and people (who can afford it) will drink filtered water and eat lab-grown meat and hydroponic produce to avoid ingesting their own pollution.

> I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it

By solving the following problems:

- Waiting in the bitter cold / snow, or baking in the sun

- Allow me to transport medium/large size dogs (most restrict animals to being in crates that can fit on a lap), without being a bother to other riders (good luck)

- Reasonable wait times. Even better, do it regardless of time of day

I love my car. I've been in public transit in 5 states and 5 countries, and I'm always whelmed at best. It suffices on a good day.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#515

Post by hedora »

stcroixx wrote: post #426
badtension wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all", to put it mildly. We are so focused on climate change and greenhouse gases that we do not see a lot of other issues and may exacerbate some of them in the process of decarbonisation.

Exactly. Moving to EVs was a huge mistake. We would have had to practically abandon personal vehicles at some point. This was that chance. Blown. These things will keep us in this same pattern for at least another 50 years leaving this problem for a new generation. If anyone was serious about any of this, wfh for anyone that can is such an obvious solution with by far the lowest cost. Its a solved problem, we just do…

Many cities are laid out for cars.

Fixing that is much harder than switching to EVs and would have a massive environmental impact. Buildings have 2x more global warming footprint than transportation.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#516

Post by margalabargala »

lobocinza wrote: post #474
HWR_14 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs don't have to be heavier. If people mostly drove a low range EV it could use significantly smaller batteries.

If a low range EV is enough 100% just buy a bike.

How often does it rain and snow where you live? Do you have kids?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#517

Post by hedora »

dilyevsky wrote: post #495
sagarm wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric trains should start passenger service next year (originally this year). https://www.caltrain.com/projects/electrification

Originally it was 2019 and maybe even earlier

Various NIMBY groups kept blocking it, then covid hit.

They’re worried about the wheel and wind noise, I think.

If I lived near Caltrain, I’d be more worried about diesel exhaust and commute times (the new trains are faster).

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#518

Post by midoridensha »

brewdad wrote: post #437
wizofaus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd only add "...because they're incredibly useful, AND government policy has consistently favoured such a mode of transport over all other alternatives". The amount spent by governments on maintaining road infrastructure dwarfs all other transport spending, the amount of land dedicated to parking and driving space is mindboggling, and of course the amount spent on ensuring the global oil industry has been able to re…

I’ve been looking at places for retirement where I can live car-free or at least very car-lite. There are very few places in the US where this will be possible in my lifetime. Absolutely, let’s more towards an EV future because that’s the best we’ll do in most people’s lifetimes but we can’t expect that change to fix what we’ve spent 100 years building. It needs to be seen as step one of many yet so many Americans ar…

[dead]

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#519

Post by margalabargala »

seb1204 wrote: post #325
luis8 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like nuclear with proper waste disposal is they way to go

It is not. Proper waste disposal is an unsolved issue that extends beyond so many human generations. Also I suspect that social licence and NIMBYism will make it impossible to build them in time to save us from global warming.

Based on the conclusions in this comment thread, any energy source more exotic than a wood campfire is unacceptably damaging.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#520

Post by kortex »

michaelteter wrote: post #506
crazygringo wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the solution is natural rubber, which costs slight more than synthetic rubber but lasts longer. So its better for consumers, cheaper all around, and 1,000x better for the environment Is it? I'm Googling but can't find any evidence for that. Natural rubber tires still produce tons of dust, I can't find any reference to it being less harmful in our lungs, and even natural tire rubber seems to biodegrade on the order…

> I'm Googling but can't find any evidence for that. I'm sorry, but the parent poster said they have been studying in this domain for 4+ years (including PhD research), and you present doubt because your Google searches are unconvincing? What would it take to convince you? You do realize that what you find on the first 10 pages of Google (or other) search engines could be junk or intentionally targeted misinformation…

It's doubtful if you know even a basic bit of chemistry. Vulcanized rubber is a crosslinked thermoset polymer that is very difficult to break down, regardless of whether it is natural or synthetic in origin. It's going to produce roughly the same amount of microplastic per amount of tire. Lets say natural rubber lasts 2x as long, that's half as much microplastic, not 1/1000th. I get that GP is being hyperbolic, but natural rubber is incrementally better (at best) than synthetic, not revolutionarily better.
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