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12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

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Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#101

Post by derefr »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #96
derefr wrote: post #93

Is there some way that we could "scan the Earth" to find other long-buried sites like Göbeklitepe? Would it be possible to do something from imaging satellites — something akin to ground-penetrating radar / laser range-finding / ultrasound — that might not be good enough for much, but which would be "just good enough" to find any other gigantic cities with walls built of dense stone, hidden under 10-50ft of dirt or s…

Yes they've been doing lidar scans throughout central america to detect ancient Mayan pyramids and cities that are hidden under foliage. They've identified thousands of structures but other factors have limited their ability to unearth them (# of archaeologists, funding, politics).

Yes, lidar is great and all for what it does, and will definitely find us many new sites; but lidar just detects structures that cause raised areas (i.e. plants growing up and over the structures) rather than detecting structures hidden within a flat plane of fill-in medium like dirt/sand, the way Göbeklitepe was hidden. Lidar wouldn't have found Göbeklitepe.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#102

Post by bluehorizon2 »

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people.

My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization.

These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the educational techniques for carving it off stone and the social structure to support art were not supposed to exist at this time. This is pretty huge in terms of figuring out the birth of human civilization.

And the fact that the same site also has these huge stone megaliths that also weren’t supposed to be possible and were also dated to 12,000 years so just solidified the idea that our current theories are completely wrong.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#103

Post by Syntonicles »

d1l wrote: post #61
pelorat wrote: post #4

That's not what I consider a "realistic human statue" ?

In that time there is relatively little figurative art of humans. Rarely seen in cave painting, etc. The nearest would be the Venus figurines but they don't typically show facial features or internal anatomical details. It's a major major find bro.

I haven't seen much art from that era either and was pretty surprised to see the statue. However looking into it, I'm even more surprised to learn of the Venus of Brassempouy.

I've heard that much of the ruins from Ancient Greeze were likely brightly colored and painted. I can't help but wonder if the Venus I mentioned had been painted as well. It's possible that they did have detailed faces, and that they simply weren't sculpted.

I'm the furthest thing from an expert of course.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#105

Post by appplication »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #104

I read the article and didn’t see the 12,000 years (perhaps obscured by countless irrelevant ad overlays) and wondered how does one date stone, since carbon dating is irrelevant for something that didnt stop breathing and eating?

One way is to date the deposition of the sediment immediately surrounding the artifact. I don’t know exactly how they do this but I recall reading this was the method for some older structures that made the front page a week or two ago.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#106

Post by asvitkine »

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

How does carbon dating work on a statue?

Wouldn't it be dating the underlying material (i.e. the stone), which presumably predates the actual carving of the statue out of that material?

Edit: I guess if it was buried, they date the organic material around it.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#107

Post by p-e-w »

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

> My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago.

Huh? The Venus of Willendorf[1] is twice as old, and to my eye displays a higher degree of artistry than the statue shown in the article. Several such Venus figurines have been found in central Europe.

Compared to the intricacy of the Venus' limestone carving, the statue from the article looks downright crude. The idea that it's "not supposed to be possible" to make something like that 12,000 years BP is ridiculous, and I can't imagine where you might have got that impression. Yes, the new statue is life-size, while the Venus is a figurine, but that doesn't necessarily make it any more difficult to manufacture (possibly easier, in fact).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#108

Post by p-e-w »

asvitkine wrote: post #106
bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

How does carbon dating work on a statue? Wouldn't it be dating the underlying material (i.e. the stone), which presumably predates the actual carving of the statue out of that material? Edit: I guess if it was buried, they date the organic material around it.

> How does carbon dating work on a statue?

It doesn't, and the stone itself is typically hundreds of millions or even billions of years old.

However, many ancient artifacts are found buried in the ground, and it is often possible to carbon-date organic material in the soil surrounding the artifact, which produces an estimate for when it was buried. This is typically combined with historians' estimates for when the culture that presumably produced the artifact flourished, though uncertainties of several millennia remain in some cases.

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#109

Post by defrost »

asvitkine wrote: post #106
bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

How does carbon dating work on a statue? Wouldn't it be dating the underlying material (i.e. the stone), which presumably predates the actual carving of the statue out of that material? Edit: I guess if it was buried, they date the organic material around it.

There's very little, if any, carbon in stone.

They dated the charcoal in layers settled about the statue:

https://www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/2016/06/22/how-ol...

Re: 12,000-year-old realistic human statue was unearthed

#110

Post by unsubstantiated »

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #102

It feels like the significance of this is lost on many people. My understanding is that complex things like statues were not supposed to be possible 12,000 years ago. I think it’s supposed to be more like 6000 years ago. The fact that it has been carbon dated to 12,000 tears should means that we have to rewrite the theories on the start of human civilization. These statues needed to be carved out of tools and the edu…

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