This seems like the same thing as with “Agile”.
The name is used and contorted into some bastardized form so now we just throw the whole thing out.
2023 DevOps Is Terrible
11–20 of 126 posts
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#12DevOps just makes the problem worse which it is intended to solve. DevOps started from "deploying is too hard, and the developers don't know how to run complicated shell scripts to deploy our software to release, anyone should be able to deploy it and have it scale!". However, most companies started to cargo-cult Google and just built everything in the "most scalable" way, incurring tons of overhead, both in deployment friction and hardware costs, so we are back to DevOps being an almost completely separate field from software engineering, and the programmers still can't deploy software.
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#13Whats your SRE / DevOps ratio? In my experience, in the 10 teams I had or oversaw, I had about 1 FTE in DevOps for 15 SRE. Of course it depends, but what’s your personal experience?
DevOps isn’t a role, it’s values and ways of working.
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#14The fact that we have a “devops team” at work infuriates me. It’s enough to distract me me from how “Scrum” has destroyed Agile.
What is so horrible about it? Our devs are happy they can focus on fixing unit tests in pycharm, while others care about where the code is going.
Because it's just a hip way of saying you have a sysadmin team. How can something or someone be "devops" if all the developers are in one team doing dev tasks, and the ops in a separate team doing ops stuff?
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#15The creation of DevOps teams instead of SRE / Platform seems pretty common and I think originates from ignorant engineering leaders and poorly defined roles and responsibilities. You want to leverage the expertise of the folks who focus on cloud infrastructure, but you can't move the responsibility of operations away from the application teams without seriously compromising incentives that effect quality, throughput…
Can you expand on what you mean by this? Specifically: "you can't move the responsibility of operations away from the application teams without seriously compromising incentives that effect quality, throughput and reliability"
I guess it's: You change the way you think about those metrics if you're the one being called at 2AM Saturday night.
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#16DevOps as a culture vs DevOps as the neo modern unix admin has no right answer. It's just like software development philosophy and organization.
It's a fine approach, if you have a well aligned group of people working with the same understanding. The same is true for places that prefer to draw boundaries of responsibility in other ways.
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#17The fact that we have a “devops team” at work infuriates me. It’s enough to distract me me from how “Scrum” has destroyed Agile.
What is so horrible about it? Our devs are happy they can focus on fixing unit tests in pycharm, while others care about where the code is going.
The thing i have come to dislike is that in both companies i work for it lead to strange working relationships between ops/eng. anything that breaks in the deploy pipeline is now “the devops team problem” and they normally act like it’s also your fault. In the past this has meant people messaging me saying they are blocked because their dockerfile fails in CI. Then you walk through it with them and it’s also broken locally and it comes down to them pinning to something like latest tag and the image “shocker” changed. But now you are fixing it and after you go remind everyone that you should pin your image to as strict as possible image tag. But no one cares because they can move fast and break things and when it does blame it on CI and now it’s not their problem.
Anyway this is just one tiny example but the same underlying thing starts happening in all parts of the development cycle. “My deploy doesn’t work” … well your program has an error and crashes on startup but looking at the logs would be too much work. Let’s just say we are blocked and log off.
As you can see this is a culture issue but it seems to be common when you have a devops team. And even more common when management (read senior management and up) think that developers “should just be developing”.
Anyway thats my rant.
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#18If you have a DevOps team, your company probably doesn’t understand what DevOps is about.
Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#19The creation of DevOps teams instead of SRE / Platform seems pretty common and I think originates from ignorant engineering leaders and poorly defined roles and responsibilities. You want to leverage the expertise of the folks who focus on cloud infrastructure, but you can't move the responsibility of operations away from the application teams without seriously compromising incentives that effect quality, throughput…
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Re: 2023 DevOps Is Terrible
#20The fact that we have a “devops team” at work infuriates me. It’s enough to distract me me from how “Scrum” has destroyed Agile.
What is so horrible about it? Our devs are happy they can focus on fixing unit tests in pycharm, while others care about where the code is going.
That’s fine, it just has nothing to do with DevOps then. The whole point is that these are not separate teams.