Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
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Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#2Apparently degrowth is the new trend this year. Hype Society in a hurry for the next disaster debate.
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#3Any time someone advocates for massive redistribution, as degrowth does, ask to whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely.
What differentiates redistributive degrowth from certain forms of socialism? Did those forms of socialism create just societies or enact massive violence against humans and nature?
If one or more countries opt out of redistributive degrowth in favor of other economic models, how likely are they to create more desirable local living conditions than the degrowthers, destabilizing the degrowth regime just as visions of capitalism destabilized the USSR?
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#4Any time someone advocates for massive redistribution, as degrowth does, ask to whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely. What differentiates redistributive degrowth from certain forms of socialism? Did those forms of socialism create just societies or enact massive violence against humans and nature? If one or more countries opt out of redistributive degrowth in…
As I read it, the point of the linked article is not to argue that a specific approach will work, but more to argue about what effects hypothetical policies would have, if successfully enacted, which is a core concern of economics. The argument here asks: if we did X, would Y follow? There appears to be a debate among economists, and this article is making one argument in that debate (which you can agree with or disagree with). But that debate is independent of whether is it possible in practice to do X in the first place.
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#5Any time someone advocates for massive redistribution, as degrowth does, ask to whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely. What differentiates redistributive degrowth from certain forms of socialism? Did those forms of socialism create just societies or enact massive violence against humans and nature? If one or more countries opt out of redistributive degrowth in…
> whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely.
Existing state structures, through taxes/subsidies/government expenditure/laws/regulations, already redistribute wealth from some socioeconomic classes to others. These structures are to certain extent decided by elected officials and somewhat by other big players (eg. bank regulations on overdrafting).
Degrowthers are asking that society elect officials who make the economic changes they want, which they are legally empowered to do. Since, the overall system is not being changed, I am not quite sure what your concern is.
> Did those forms of socialism create just societies or enact massive violence against humans and nature?
Please understand the difference between democractic socialism and Marxism (and its failed implementations in the USSR). Various forms of democratic socialism are practiced across Europe and Canada and they are not particularly known for massive violence against their own citizens.
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#6Any time someone advocates for massive redistribution, as degrowth does, ask to whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely. What differentiates redistributive degrowth from certain forms of socialism? Did those forms of socialism create just societies or enact massive violence against humans and nature? If one or more countries opt out of redistributive degrowth in…
> whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely. Existing state structures, through taxes/subsidies/government expenditure/laws/regulations, already redistribute wealth from some socioeconomic classes to others. These structures are to certain extent decided by elected officials and somewhat by other big players (eg. bank regulations on overdrafting). Degrowthers are…
European democratic socialism very much has a growth focus, very unclear what a degrowth variant would look like.
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
> whom they propose to give that power of appropriation, and why they trust them to use it wisely. Existing state structures, through taxes/subsidies/government expenditure/laws/regulations, already redistribute wealth from some socioeconomic classes to others. These structures are to certain extent decided by elected officials and somewhat by other big players (eg. bank regulations on overdrafting). Degrowthers are…
European democratic socialism very much has a growth focus, very unclear what a degrowth variant would look like.
What do you mean? Europe has been pretty much degrowing since 2008
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#8Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
European democratic socialism very much has a growth focus, very unclear what a degrowth variant would look like.
What do you mean? Europe has been pretty much degrowing since 2008
EU GDP has grown by 15.3% from 2008 to 2022 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD?location... Is that really what degrowth looks like?
Re: Modeling transformational policy pathways on low and negative growth scenarios
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean? Europe has been pretty much degrowing since 2008
EU GDP has grown by 15.3% from 2008 to 2022 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD?location... Is that really what degrowth looks like?
Getting close to at about 1% per year.