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What Is the Future of the DAW?

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Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#71

Post by fractallyte »

thegagne wrote: post #9
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #5

TFA starts down an important path - identifying different categories of users - but doesn't really get this quite right IMO. There are (at least) four categories of DAW users: 1. Professionals who are being paid to make music, and for whom time is essentially money. Tools that speed up the production of that music are both financially valuable to them, and also make their overall lives easier (if done right). 2. Musi…

Any recommendations for #3? Particularly with low barrier of entry for kids? Something you can use a midi keyboard and a mic with?

Back in the 90s kids used a variety of sample trackers on their Amiga home computers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_tracker#Selected_list_of...

Oh, and samples? Kids used hardware samplers to rip or record their own:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37376675

And how'd that work out? The end result was a piece of music called a module ("mod"). Strangely enough, I can't find exact (or even approximate) numbers. A snapshot of the MOD archive from 2007 had 120k mods:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_Archive

So, yeah, a very low barrier of entry... ;-)

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#72

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

duped wrote: post #63
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my #4 ... but also feel free to expand the taxonomy!

I would say that there's a pair of taxonomies, one being of audio content (social audio, radio, film, multimedia art, music, etc) and one being of the level of user (hobby/beginner, student, pro, academic, etc) and the problem with DAWs are that they generally gravitate towards where the money is, which are pro users in music and film.

I think that's a solid observation. I just like to add a 3rd dimension to the taxonomy, which is the relationship of the user to the finished work (is it for money? is it for anyone else? is it for fun? is it meaningful?) because I think this impacts the user's relationship with the tools.

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#73

Post by squarefoot »

What I really miss in DAWs is a drum arranging tool that goes beyond scores or xoxo grids. Those are good for editing patterns in atomic ways, but I'd love something to quickly record new patterns played on drum pads on the fly, with arbitrary duration, create a new pattern that inherits parts of the one I just recorded (to make variations and fills) just by hitting one key and/or sending a MIDI note from a controller, etc. Then after having a good number of patterns, I'd like something that shows them as nodes on screen so that they can be connected dynamically according to a predefined flow with possible variations triggered by MIDI notes (pedal switches) during live performances so that the flow can be altered either by prolonging/shortening a series of patterns, jumping here and there based on conditions, but the visual node representation would be vital to have a quick feedback that shows what is going to happen say 5 measures from now, for example by highlighting the nodes and flow that will be followed under the present conditions.

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#74

Post by JeffeFawkes »

thegagne wrote: post #9
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #5

TFA starts down an important path - identifying different categories of users - but doesn't really get this quite right IMO. There are (at least) four categories of DAW users: 1. Professionals who are being paid to make music, and for whom time is essentially money. Tools that speed up the production of that music are both financially valuable to them, and also make their overall lives easier (if done right). 2. Musi…

Any recommendations for #3? Particularly with low barrier of entry for kids? Something you can use a midi keyboard and a mic with?

Check out Korg Gadget![0] It's got an Ableton-Live-style clip launcher that's easy to compose in, and a variety of "gadget" instruments that produce different kinds of sounds. If you balk at $30 for an app, it goes on sale for half price a good 3-4 times a year, usually around holidays. You can hook up any midi devices (BLE midi or via the USB camera kit adapter, if not on a usbc iPad). If you've got an iPad with a headphone jack you can pick up an iRig clone for If you've got an iPad that's probably the best start (it'll run on any iPad 2 or above). It will run on iPhone's but it's a bit harder to play. There's also a Nintendo Switch version (it's more limited, eg no audio recording or export), and a mac version (but it's pricey). Annoyingly, the Mac and iOS versions are separate, but at least the iPhone and iPad versions come together as one purchase.

[0]: https://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_gadget/

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#75

Post by schemescape »

thegagne wrote: post #9
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #5

TFA starts down an important path - identifying different categories of users - but doesn't really get this quite right IMO. There are (at least) four categories of DAW users: 1. Professionals who are being paid to make music, and for whom time is essentially money. Tools that speed up the production of that music are both financially valuable to them, and also make their overall lives easier (if done right). 2. Musi…

Any recommendations for #3? Particularly with low barrier of entry for kids? Something you can use a midi keyboard and a mic with?

Related question: any suggestions on what to try next after LMMS?

I was planning to try Reaper or FL Studio.

My biggest complaints with LMMS are: doesn’t support VST3, can’t see notes for multiple tracks at the same time (although I saw a “ghost notes” patch someone was working on for this scenario).

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#77

Post by xcv123 »

te_chris wrote: post #56
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to consider what that sounds like if you rewind it to say, 2002. Ableton is a small startup in Berlin. The dominant DAWs include several that don't even do MIDI. Apple hasn't yet acquired Logic by buying Emagic. Why would expect the next steps to come from "real players in the space", when the previous next steps did not? Look at how quickly Presonus managed to build Studio One to a crazy-level of cred…

Because it’s not 2002? As you say, music production capable workstations didn’t really exist. To count out extremely capable incumbents in favour of reporting the opinions of bandlab who bought Cakewalk in a fire sale and haven’t really had much of a dent from what I can tell seems strange. No solid quotes from presonus either.

> To count out extremely capable incumbents

The article mentions those "extremely capable incumbents" are now stuck with legacy codebases.

> music production capable workstations didn’t really exist

Logic and Cubase were highly capable in 2002. They haven't progressed much in 20 years. The midi drum track editor in Cubase today looks the same as the 90s version.

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#78

Post by delgaudm »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #5

TFA starts down an important path - identifying different categories of users - but doesn't really get this quite right IMO. There are (at least) four categories of DAW users: 1. Professionals who are being paid to make music, and for whom time is essentially money. Tools that speed up the production of that music are both financially valuable to them, and also make their overall lives easier (if done right). 2. Musi…

5. People who record, but have nothing to do with music whatsoever. For example, I have literally no musical skills whatsoever, but have at least 15k hours in my DAW. I'm a Voice actor, who worked hard to customize my DAW to get rid of as much music making stuff as possible from cluttering my interface (Reaper FTW)

It's a Digital AUDIO workstation, not a Digital MUSIC workstation

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#79

Post by robenkleene »

jdietrich wrote: post #69
robenkleene wrote: post #22

The umbrella topic to this is one of my favorite topics in all of software and one where strangely we as an industry don't seem to have internalized its lessons: That the right approach to building a software program (like a DAW, NLE, bitmap/vector editor) emerges early. This is why these applications have lifespans measured in decades, and it's extremely rare for a new player to be able offer anything new, different…

DAWs haven't converged on a "best" approach. Most use a traditional linear workflow that's essentially a digital multitrack tape, but Ableton and Bitwig use a clip-based workflow that tends to be better suited to improvisation and live performance. I think the factor you're missing is path dependence. The approach that becomes dominant isn't necessarily "best", just a stable equilibrium where switching costs are grea…

Clip-based workflow was facilitated by technology progress (e.g., Moore's law) which unlocks new design space (similar pattern to why Lightroom was "invented" so long after Photoshop). I.e., doing things real-time or non-destructively as computers get faster is really common, so that happens then the design space gets exhausted again. The key point being this happens quickly once the new approaches are possible.

The piece I linked to makes all these points, as well as addressing your others.

Re: What Is the Future of the DAW?

#80

Post by jimmaswell »

delgaudm wrote: post #78
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #5

TFA starts down an important path - identifying different categories of users - but doesn't really get this quite right IMO. There are (at least) four categories of DAW users: 1. Professionals who are being paid to make music, and for whom time is essentially money. Tools that speed up the production of that music are both financially valuable to them, and also make their overall lives easier (if done right). 2. Musi…

5. People who record, but have nothing to do with music whatsoever. For example, I have literally no musical skills whatsoever, but have at least 15k hours in my DAW. I'm a Voice actor, who worked hard to customize my DAW to get rid of as much music making stuff as possible from cluttering my interface (Reaper FTW) It's a Digital AUDIO workstation, not a Digital MUSIC workstation

If you're only recording lines, why isn't Audacity a lot more convenient?
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