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Burnout is caused by resentment

iamnotaprogrammer.com

61–70 of 73 posts

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#61
post #20

At the risk of making everything about Google... I'm going to talk about Google (with the disclaimer that I've now worked here for only ~1.5 years so I'm not authority, etc etc). stcredzero mentions a laundry list of soul-sapping bad behaviour and in previous jobs I've suffered through (or quit over) probably all of them at one time or another. There are some subtle yet fundamentally important differences in how Goog…

As an engineer, I don't have to work for you (where "you" is any particular manager or director). This is incredibly important because it puts strict limits on how much crap you can be given because (assuming you're in good standing) you can request a transfer to any team that will take you (within limits and your existing manager can delay you but can't block you)

True for Real Googlers. Real Googler status used to be informally conferred at Senior SWE but now it's somewhere between Senior SWE and Staff SWE. Real Googlers can pull a Yegge (quit their project in public). Peasants get PIP'd by their managers if they are seen talking to TLs from other teams (transfer risk) in the microkitchen.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#62
post #2

I'd agree. Every time I've quit, it's because I felt I was repeatedly getting the short end of the stick, and management was expecting me to roll over every time I brought such things up. I quit my first job at 15 1/2. I worked at a Wal-Mart during the summer to buy a computer. I covered 200% more departments than I was hired for. I never took a day off, despite coworkers just not showing up so they could go to the b…

That doesn't sound like burnout. It sounds like you lost faith in shitty managers and left. Trust me, this is an experience that almost everyone will have.

The movie portrayal of success is that you become someone's protege and he takes you under his wing. Bud Fox meets Gordon Gekko. The douchebag character that Shia LaBeouf played in that execrable sequel gets a $1.5M check for kissing a suicidal old man on the top of the head. The real world trajectory is rockier. No one powerful gives a shit about you, no one powerful looks out for you. You work your ass off anyway, because it's the right thing to do. You do your best to deliver on promises you make to colleagues, because it's the right thing to do. You get really, really good at a few important skills (written communication, computer programming, and social skills are all very important). If your boss takes interest in your education and career development, you reciprocate with extreme diligence and loyalty. If he doesn't, you steal an education and find ways to learn anyway. Self-mentoring. That's how most successful people will actually come up.

I don't like the term burnout. It suggests finality. It's an artifact of the Western obsession with age and entropy and transience, the idea that people who excel can only persist for so long. It's not true. There's such a thing as "motivational crisis", but it's usually transient. Like earthquakes, most are harmless, and the only ones that are remembered in 10,000 years are those that produce features of beauty. As I get older, they come on quicker but they're of much shorter duration. That tends to be a general pattern. Permanent burnout? No such thing. All fear comes from a fear of permanence (including fear of death) but Buddhism teaches there is no such thing and therefore nothing to fear.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#63
post #2

I'd agree. Every time I've quit, it's because I felt I was repeatedly getting the short end of the stick, and management was expecting me to roll over every time I brought such things up. I quit my first job at 15 1/2. I worked at a Wal-Mart during the summer to buy a computer. I covered 200% more departments than I was hired for. I never took a day off, despite coworkers just not showing up so they could go to the b…

One job gave me a 10K relocation bonus. Then with no notice whatsoever they deducted that bonus from my year end bonus. I was so mad. They claimed it was official policy but couldn't they have told me that up front when I was evaluating job offers? It was certainly never in my offer letter. Edit ... I guess your stories are a lot worse. I'm so sorry :-(

Classic bait-and-switch is what you got. Usually, it's a lot less brazen and more subtle (project allocation, promised managerial support that's not delivered) so it can be attributed to shifting priorities, but... yeah, it hurts.

What happened to you: don't these fuckers realize that this is bad business? I don't find it surprising that people in control of business decisions are greedy. They're supposed to be greedy (but hopefully not unethical). It's astonishing to me how stupid a lot of them are.

Let's get real about this shit. An employee who is around for less than 6 months is of very low value to the organization. You want people to stick around? Treat them decently.

In our parents' time, a 6-month job tenure was a black mark, so companies could treat employees like garbage for the first 2 years because it'd be career suicide to leave. It meant you probably got fired, because people just didn't leave stable employment. This day in age, fail-fast is the rule and there's just no such thing as stable employment-- unless you're a senior politician in a one-party district, because the voters are disinclined to fire the bad ones.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#64

no - resentment leads to "being pissed-off enough to go work somewhere else". please, lets keep "burnout" for burning out . you know: when you're in a foetal ball sobbing, begging for it to stop; when you need years before your work is enjoyable again; when the client liaison goes on leave after an "accident" with a knife. there is a difference between that and "resentment".

You don't have to sob to be burnt out. You just have to be sick of it all.. and not care.

It really doesn't matter how good the company is, or how well they treat you.

When you're burnt out you just don't want to deal with any of it anymore. You're sick of what you're doing, and you don't want any part of it -- no matter what they offer or how much they coddle you.

Been there.. done that.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#65

I find that wasting my time is a larger annoyance than monetary compensation. As I get older I have less tolerance for meaningless meetings and the requirement to work specific hours or be in a physical office for a client just because it makes a manager feel better.

If you call being sick of meetings and having to come in at specific times "burnout", you have a very mild case of it.

Burnout started for me when I noticed that my interests weren't aligned with my company's interests.. or with any company's interests.. or even with my profession's interests.

Coding became boring. So I switched to doing sysadmin. Then sysadmin stuff became boring. Then technology in general became boring. I just didn't care to learn another stupid language or configuration syntax for products I didn't care about and companies whose success or failure I couldn't give two shits about. I didn't care about the clients. Or the users. Or my coworkers.

Not caring. That's a big part of it. So's lacking interest. At times I'd stop caring about anything. Other times I'd care about things, but they weren't things having anything to do with work.

Everything to do with work became a severe chore at best, and a complete nightmare at worst. It all seemed so fake and full of bullshit -- from the company's stupid pep talks or fake parties and dinners where everyone pretended to like each other and kissed up to their bosses.

When I finally quit it felt like such a relief. Quitting days were some of the happiest days of my life. I did that a lot.

That's burnout.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#66

I agree. The biggest reason why employees (or hell, founders too) quit is because they don't feel appreciated. If I'm working 60-70 hours a week and have a never-ending stream of people inside the company griping at me about why I wasn't able to get non-essential-to-my-role task X,Y, or Z done for them (this is what being in a big company feels like) - that really starts to mount even for employees who know that they…

It's about more than just feeling appreciated and feeling like you've done a good job.

I had both, and yet I still burnt out.

What was lacking was fulfillment -- the sense that the work you do is meaningful for you.

Ideally, your job should be interesting, fun, stimulating, and you should feel that what you do is important. If it's stressful, it should be at a level of stress you can deal with, and the stress should be of a positive sort, not a negative sort.

At some of my jobs I was greatly appreciated, and I knew I was doing a great job. But the work was boring, I didn't feel it was important, and it was extremely stressful. So I burnt out.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One job gave me a 10K relocation bonus. Then with no notice whatsoever they deducted that bonus from my year end bonus. I was so mad. They claimed it was official policy but couldn't they have told me that up front when I was evaluating job offers? It was certainly never in my offer letter. Edit ... I guess your stories are a lot worse. I'm so sorry :-(

Classic bait-and-switch is what you got. Usually, it's a lot less brazen and more subtle (project allocation, promised managerial support that's not delivered) so it can be attributed to shifting priorities, but... yeah, it hurts. What happened to you: don't these fuckers realize that this is bad business? I don't find it surprising that people in control of business decisions are greedy. They're supposed to be greed…

So you think a short-stint is no longer a black mark on your resume?

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other toxins: - Bad faith - not being talked to straight up - Resentment and blame - creates more of the same like prions - Disrespect - the subtle kind is more insidious - Being second guessed/distrusted - Political gamesmanship - have to defeat other departments, then competitors? - Overwork - Underwork All of this is human nature, just not the part of human nature that's going to help your team win.

I'm pretty sure all of the above act through resentment. This also means that resentment is somewhat of a catch-all term.

There's the emotion, and things that cause the emotion. One of those those causes is the emotion itself. (Also works with anger and amusement. Anger begets anger. Laughter causes more laughter.)

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic bait-and-switch is what you got. Usually, it's a lot less brazen and more subtle (project allocation, promised managerial support that's not delivered) so it can be attributed to shifting priorities, but... yeah, it hurts. What happened to you: don't these fuckers realize that this is bad business? I don't find it surprising that people in control of business decisions are greedy. They're supposed to be greed…

So you think a short-stint is no longer a black mark on your resume?

It is, but much less of one and not in the same way.

A job under 2 months should just be omitted. It's not illegal or unethical to do this; you probably didn't accomplish anything, so it'd just be noise to include it. A job between 2 and 6 months gave you enough time to accomplish something and it should usually be represented as a project-based/consulting gig. Describe the project; skip the politics. Between 6 and 12 months requires a good reason, but if you can describe a bait-and-switch (which is the most common case) in a professional and conservative way that doesn't disparage anyone, you're OK. Priorities shifted. For "Why did you leave?" advice, just go to a bar and ask 10 people why they left their most recent jobs (you're doing a survey). Learn what sounds good and what sounds bad. 12 to 48 months was a "short stint" in our parents' time, but isn't in ours, so don't even worry about that. You left for better opportunities.

Re: Burnout is caused by resentment

#70
post #29
post #2

I'd agree. Every time I've quit, it's because I felt I was repeatedly getting the short end of the stick, and management was expecting me to roll over every time I brought such things up. I quit my first job at 15 1/2. I worked at a Wal-Mart during the summer to buy a computer. I covered 200% more departments than I was hired for. I never took a day off, despite coworkers just not showing up so they could go to the b…

What you describe isn't burnout though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_(psychology)

Oh, I've been to step 7 before. Usually when I hit step 8 is when my friends step in and bluntly point out that it's time for me to move on. "You're on all the time -- you need to be able to turn off". "Yeah, I figured I'd call because no one has heard from you in months. Just making sure you're, well, not dead." Etc.

I once had a girlfriend intervene and "take care of the problem" for me. I was being sent all over the eastern seaboard and was only home for about 12 days in the previous 5 months. I was so displeased with the current situation that for the previous month I was barely even calling her. She went in, demanded a meeting with the Chief Strategy Officer and told him that she sincerely hoped his kids died in a car fire. She probably said a few other things, but that was the one she seemed to be most "proud of".

I quit my last job last month. I've been very picky with what I'm targeting, and if they don't respond, I particularly don't care. I've told headhunters I'm not interested in their clients, and I'm not on the job boards and recruiters would get shot down if they did manage to find my number. In the meantime, I always wanted to make video games so I'm giving that a shot. I plan on documenting things in a blog once I get closer to having the first title close to release.

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